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| He should be in the 'squad' without question imo.
He may just about miss out on a place in the 17 for the first game though but could force his way in at some point.
I'd like to see Danny Brough get a shot at 7 because as much as anything we need a kicker and he's a classy one. I'd probably start McGuire at 6.
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| I think Sam has to be in the 17 for the first match at least - afterall he is now officially the best stand off in the league this year.
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| Much depends on who plays at 7, its about striking the correct combinations and balance.
Brough and Tomkins I would like to see think they would form an excellent partnership and have the right balance, but would they gel straight out of the training pitch and against the best players on the planet?
Burrow and McGuire been there done that, never really done anything but they know each others games, its the safe option but in truth in my opinion is always going to falter at this level you may win the odd game with them but you certainly would not win the tournament in my opinion.
We then have Myler and Pryce while I think Myler is a good prospect he is not ready to face the Aussies, Pryce in my opinion needs to be moved to fullback competing with Briscoe for the number 1 shirt, he again has always faltered at the top level, i think the extra space he would get a fullback would make him a far more affective player for England.
In short I would like to see Sam get first crack, he has earned it and to be fair the tried and tested combinations have failed, Brough I think now qualifies for England and is a big character like Tomkins he has the mongrel in him that players like McGuire and Burrow lack.
If we are looking for another consolidation series ie no chance of winning but not totally disgracing ourselves go with the old guard, if we are going to go poop or bust give Tomkins and Brough a shot see what they can do.
Look at the hammering Jonny Wilkinson got in the build up to establishing himself as the World Cup winning Stand off in Union, sent to the slaughter against the Aussies with a very understrenght England team while British Lions toured S.A. i think, record scores put past them but a great learning curve that benefited the England team in the long run, we have to build towards the next World Cup, exposing our halves to this level of comp can only benefit us in preparing for this comp.
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| Time to try something new. Get him in.
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| Sam is good enough to play but its all about who you play with him. The problem is the three likely candidates for the halfback role are off the cuff running halfbacks with little organisational skills. (McGuire, Burrow and Pryce)
For it to work well we need him out there with an organisation type half back dare I say it, Sean Long or even Richie Myler.
I do not think Myler will be selected this time as his defence is attrocious and he will get targeted.
Brough is inelligible isnt he cos he played for the Scots but if I am wrong I cannot see him getting picked either.
I will stick my neck out and say if Smith decides to go with Sam I would play McGuire at 7 as he is the only one out of him, Burrow, Pryce who posesses some sort of an all-round game.
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| Quote ="- Neil -"Sam is good enough to play but its all about who you play with him. The problem is the three likely candidates for the halfback role are off the cuff running halfbacks with little organisational skills. (McGuire, Burrow and Pryce)
For it to work well we need him out there with an organisation type half back dare I say it, Sean Long or even Richie Myler.
I do not think Myler will be selected this time as his defence is attrocious and he will get targeted.
Brough is inelligible isnt he cos he played for the Scots but if I am wrong I cannot see him getting picked either.
I will stick my neck out and say if Smith decides to go with Sam I would play McGuire at 7 as he is the only one out of him, Burrow, Pryce who posesses some sort of an all-round game.'"
The best way to use Tomkins in an international game would probably be in the same way as we were using him earlier in the season and bring him from the bench to inject some pace and urgency into our backline when the opposition are tiring. He's such a livewire and the Aussie and Kiwi's won't know too much about him so if we hold him back a little they'll find it difficult to work out they need to target him.
As for Brough i think he can play for England now can't he? If he can i'd select him alongside McGuire to start games because he's got a great kicking game both out of hand and at goal and we need both. He would take abit of pressure of the likes of McGuire and Tomkins and allow them to concentrate on what they do best and thats creating danger with ball in hand.
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| Quote ="NickyKiss"The best way to use Tomkins in an international game would probably be in the same way as we were using him earlier in the season and bring him from the bench to inject some pace and urgency into our backline when the opposition are tiring. He's such a livewire and the Aussie and Kiwi's won't know too much about him so if we hold him back a little they'll find it difficult to work out they need to target him.
As for Brough i think he can play for England now can't he? If he can i'd select him alongside McGuire to start games because he's got a great kicking game both out of hand and at goal and we need both. He would take abit of pressure of the likes of McGuire and Tomkins and allow them to concentrate on what they do best and thats creating danger with ball in hand.'"
Personally do not think we can carry a half on the bench we need 2 forwards and a hooker, for me he either starts or does not play.
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| Quote ="jonh"Personally do not think we can carry a half on the bench we need 2 forwards and a hooker, for me he either starts or does not play.'"
It'd have to be in place of the hooker imo with McGuire(or Burrow if selected) having a stint at 9 during the game.
Roby and Moore would both appear to be in with a great shot at a place in the 17 and another player who's in great form who Smith may just take a punt on would be Lunt from Huddersfield. He's seen first hand(in the cup final) just how well he's playing at the moment and is probably outplaying Scott Moore.
A place in the 17 may just be a task too far at the moment for Sam but he'll get in the 22/23 man squad surely.
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| Fox, Hall, Morley, Peacock and Sinfield will all be in I'm guessing so there is no reason why Tomkins should not be.
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| I think too many are underestimating McGuire. He's had more of an all-round game in these past 2-3 seasons and was the only English halfback to play well in the World Cup last year. Playing McGuire alongside Tomkins would be an interesting combination to try out.
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| Quote ="Trimalchio"I think too many are underestimating McGuire. He's had more of an all-round game in these past 2-3 seasons and was the only English halfback to play well in the World Cup last year. Playing McGuire alongside Tomkins would be an interesting combination to try out.'"
McGuire would be the only halfback i'd currently have in as a nailed on certainty. He's a good player and has preformed well in a GB/England shirt in the past.
He'd be at 6 with Brough at 7 for me.
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| McGuire is an outstanding player and must play against the Aussies.
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| It shows the quality we have when we are nailing someone like McGuire as a certainty!
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| Quote ="Odemwingie"Fox, Hall, Morley, Peacock and Sinfield will all be in I'm guessing so there is no reason why Tomkins should not be.'"
I don't think Smith will select Sinfield tbh.
He had him in and out of the side in the World cup when O'Loughlin wasn't fit and now that he is I think he'll pick him. He picked him for the NZ home series a couple of years back when Lockers was superb for him and then selected him for the mid season French test this year before he had to pull out.
Sinfield just isn't physical enough to compete against the Kiwi's and Aussies imo. He gets dominated with the ball and doesn't dominate the tackle like Lockers does.
A fine superleague player but not quite upto the international scene is how I see Sinfield.
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| Quote ="Odemwingie"It shows the quality we have when we are nailing someone like McGuire as a certainty!'"
He's a good player imo.
He's lost a little pace over the last couple of years but his games abit more rounded.
If the pack can get him abit of room to work in he won't let us down.
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| Quote ="Trimalchio"I think too many are underestimating McGuire. He's had more of an all-round game in these past 2-3 seasons and was the only English halfback to play well in the World Cup last year. Playing McGuire alongside Tomkins would be an interesting combination to try out.'"
I don't think either of their kicking games are good enough to be played together. Maybe with Sinfield in there it would work but his ball carrying isn't strong enough fo the international game IMO.
Tomkins and Brough for me, think he will go with McGuire though.
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| Myler will definately be starting at no7 - there is no question of that now considering his mid-season England performance, and who his new club coach is. Brough should be nowhere the team or the squad.
Burrow will probably be on the bench, interchanging with Roby at no9.
That means that we need an experienced no6. Pryce wont be in the squad at all from what I gather, leaving McGuire unfortunately. Alternatively, he could go with Sinfield at 6 which would be a big mistake - especially against the Aussies.
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| Quote ="NSL"I don't think either of their kicking games are good enough to be played together. Maybe with Sinfield in there it would work but his ball carrying isn't strong enough fo the international game IMO.
Tomkins and Brough for me, think he will go with McGuire though.'"
Even Sinfields kicking was nothing short of useless in the world cup.
I remember him getting caught in possession a couple of times whilst attempting to kick because he was expecting as little pressure to be applied to him as is in superleague.
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| brough and mcguire for me, a bloke who has an awsome kicking game and can control the game, and an off the cuff more experience mcguire at 6, the aussies will pick on sam thats why i dont think he should be in the first games
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| Being selfish it may be best if Tomkins doesn't play for England, that way he can get a full off season under his belt in preparation for what will be his toughed challenge so far, repeating the success he's had this year when the opposition know about him.
Both Westerman and Burgess have proved to be less affective in there second seasons, and Wigan need to avoid the same happening with Sam dues to how vital he is to us and are chances of success.
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| Quote ="Salty"McGuire is an outstanding player and must play against the Aussies.'"
Indeed he has shown his class time and time again at the top level he must play...............no sorry he hasn't he has actually had 1 maybe 2 ok games and like the rest of the British halves since Schofield done bugger all.
Time to move on, blood some youth/untried players, the time to stick with the tried tested and failed is gone as was highlighted by the World Cup farce.
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| Sam 6
Myler 7
Lets have some bottle and build for 2013.
McGuire, Burrow, Pryce et all have all failed at test level.
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| Quote ="AJ"Sam 6
Myler 7Lets have some bottle and build for 2013.
McGuire, Burrow, Pryce et all have all failed at test level.'"
A big call to put both of them in at the same time,
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| Quote ="wiganrlforever"A big call to put both of them in at the same time,'"
Bearing in mind the way we performed last WC what have we got to lose?
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