Stats are up from last night's game and there are some appalling "efforts" highlighted.

32 missed tackles as a team with a number of players missing 3 tackles each - Gelling, Williams, Leuluai, Sutton, Farrell, Clubb and Ganson.

Joe Burgess probably put in the laziest match stats I've seen from a Wigan winger in some time. Missed 2 of the 5 tackles he made, carried the ball a grand total of 7 times for a paltry 52 metres, made no tackle busts or clean breaks and ran once from dummy half. Based on that should be dropped for Marshall who got dropped for considerably less.

In contrast, Tom Davies is a superstar. Didn't miss a tackle (Tautai was the only other who didn't), made 4 tackle busts and 2 clean breaks, carried the ball 15 times for 169 metres for his two tries. Take a bow son and ask Burgess for his wages this week as he certainly didn't earn them.

Our props carried the ball a total of 29 times! FNP carried the ball 4 times the whole match, Sutton 8, Clubb 7 and Tautai 10.

Farrell's stats are as bad as we all probably imagined, he made 3 errors, missed 3 tackles and only carried it 8 times. Didn't look fit last night and probably shouldn't have played.

Bateman was his usually workaholic self and Gildart is the only other player who earned his wage last night.

After last night I'm convinced we need two new props, a centre and a half back to be competitive next year.

As a minimum Gelling and Burgess need a kick up the backside and should be dropped for Marshall and move Bateman to centre. Unfortunately there are no other props otherwise a couple should be sitting in the stand. Maybe J Tomkins could play there when fit.

We need at least 3 props.
Agree with the half back and would also go for an hooker who can play for 80 minutes. MM can't play well for 2 games on a trot let alone play for 80

I'm not surprised by those stats (the good and the bad), but they make interesting reading nevertheless. Davies was obviously the star of the show, and I had Gildart (a long way back) and maybe Tautai as the next best. ST was decent., As for the rest, the less said the better. With OT surely now out of sight, we should rest (and drop!) players and give some more kids some experience. Don't disagree with W6L1A's conclusions. I'm no great fan of Joel, but he'd do a better job for us at prop than FPN.

Could manfredi take the place of Burgess

are these stats online, and available for access ?

I would go with dropping Gelling & Burgess...installing Davies at left centre and bringing in Manfredi on the wing...that is two solid defenders and two work-a-holics with bringing us forward. Marshall 100% needs to replace Burgess, he will blossom outside of Gildart!

Not much movement with the props, can't really drop any of them but to say Wane was a prop and prides himself on his props, last night was god awful and those stats just compound what a lack of effort there was in the pack.

Burgess is really starting to grate on me tbh. I'm not sure if it's just me but there's an air of arrogance about him IMO but that needs to be earned and he's not doing it. There is no doubt in my mind that it's his place that should be under threat from Manfredi. To have two workaholics like Davies and Manfredi on the wings would be a nightmare for the opposition. Compare that to Burgess who is so easy to face at the moment.

Joe needs to be dropped. A spell at Swinton should sort him out.

With those sort of stats, how come Frank could still only manage 20 minute spells? Thank goodness he's leaving!

I am afraid we will see FPN's twin brother again for the next couple of weeks until the Final where undoubtably he will raise his effort for one last time and we get to see the player we thought we were signing.

I wouldn't play Bateman until the final, the kid is killing himself compared to some of his fellow teammates and I worry for him particularly late in games when others are being taken out of the firing line and he is still chucking his body about in attack and defence whilst looking shattered. Wane seems to have forgotten that he has also had a serious injury and needs to be protected from himself more than anything.

Quote ="William Melvin Hicks"are these stats online, and available for access ?'" Yeah they're always on the games page on the super league site www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... port/50330 - scroll down to find them.

Quote ="William Melvin Hicks"are these stats online, and available for access ?'" Yeah they're always on the games page on the super league site www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... port/50330 - scroll down to find them.

To be fair last week he tweeted that it wasn't a good personal performance for him so he at least acknowledges he's in bad form. It needs managing carefully as dropping him could have permanent affects or he'll just sod off back to the NRL.

I don't know why you would want to move Davies when he's excelling in his current position. It could be a master stroke but I think with the form he's in at the minute just leave him where he is. I wouldn't mind Manfredi taking Gelling's place though.

Tbh, I wasn't sure Manfredi would or could fit into centre and I was thinking longer term, Manfredi is a winger and given pre-injury form, one of the best in the league, his future lies on the left wing no where else, whereas I was thinking that a switch for Davies to left centre now would and could be a masterstroke...he could well be a Watkins type player, a combination of Manfredi & Davies at 2 & 3 could be our most effective moving forward for the next 2-3 years?


For next year...

1. Escare
2. Manfredi
3. Davies
4. Gildart
5. Burgess/Marshall

Presuming a swift to the halves for Sam.

I can't see that they'll be queuing up, on current form.

When you say 'left wing' and 'left centre' there, do you mean right wing and right centre?

Yes, sorry...

I don't get this idea why people think that wingers can just switch to centre and be good to go - centre is a specialist position (Burgess in the centre as an example - Pat Richards was tried there and failed ) as a cover maybe but as a starting idea not a chance. Far too often we have gone with the idea of playing someone who is not a specialist at centre and it does not work - look how much better Gildart plays compared the rights centres we have tried this season - and it is obvious.

Think he will this week. To be fair to burgess he played with an injection in the cc semi, and prob the same against Leeds. Why not play Marshall who knows, maybe wane didn't want to go to Leeds with both kids on the wing. The stats vs Leeds to me proves he's not fit, I know he been off his game last few weeks, but you could never fault his effort, that wasn't even there vs Leeds. Think he will take a spell on the sidelines this week for Manfredi/Marshall.

Burgess hasn't looked right since his injury lay off. If he's being jabbed up to play then why isn't Marshall being selected? Perhaps Waney wanted the experienced Burgess for two big games? Hudds at home and he has to give Joe a rest. Playing Manfredi left wing would put him against McGilvary who's a real handful. Davis must keep his place, Marshall to replace Burgess.
Waney needs to sort out the kicking game, or lack of, also wasting 2 interchanges with MM and Powell. One of them has to do 80 mins giving the forwards 2 more interchanges than at present.
Quite a lot to sort out really when at the business end of the season we'd expect all this to have been resolved months ago.

Yet the Aussies - particularly Queensland in the SOO - swap players across the back five with ease. Perhaps it's all about the quality of the individuals involved......

I sometimes wonder if we buy this line too often.

No doubt it gives their agents great leverage, but if that's what Budgie's agent is still up to, maybe it's time to call his bluff.

Budgie's main asset was always his lightning speed, and if that's now gone - as seemed to be the case at Salford last week - then what overall use is he?

I think it's doubtful that budgie will get another crack at the NRL in my opinion who would take the chance on him,his form over there was patchy at best he simply went too early and since his return to Wigan his form,and speed has been well patchy at best.

I think he does need resting,maybe like Faz last season and his rib the lad is carrying an injury that has yet to fully reveal itself,who knows just me musing i suppose he needs a bit of handling thats for sure and keeping in the side is one way doing that but at what cost as it must be playing on his mind that he's not in any kind of form that we know he was capable of.

Absolutly it is - I wouldn't be surprised if the backs there train in various positions -but and it is a huge but I cannot recall any Wigan player making a success of switching from wing to centre for a very, very long time (Dean Bell the last?). Burgess looked lost at centre when he played there recently and the suggestions of moving someone like Davies there just baffle me - especially whilst we have other options (we have centres out on loan) especially in important games.

I accept that Gelling is not playing well but moving wingers into the centre is unlikely to provide a solution.

Good players don't just become bad players overnight.
I'd say it's a mix of low confidence and possible injury, just something not quite right with him.

For me I don't think he's getting the service that Marshall/Davies have been getting. We are not seeing the ball drifted over to the corners anymore (how many tries has he scored), none since Newcastle when it saved us a point.

Maybe it's all part of the 'boring rugby' stance the club (John Winder) confessed to a few weeks back?