The play off system as it is doesnt suit wigan because our away form is better than our home form. Last season we beat saints, catalan and leeds away but lost to them at home, thus it is pointless us finishing top (unless you factor in the week off you get and the clubcall which havent helped us in previous years). Making the DW a fortress should be a top priority and would certainly help us in the playoffs.

Which doesn't make the game on friday meaningless, the point of this topic.

You were the the one to say this:

"Looking at the protagonists for the history of the eight team system would suggest that entry to the GF is best when in 2nd place, then first and fifth. Winning the GF is a tie between the first place team and the fifth place team, oh and the first placed team get the LLS which is somewhat devalued but worth more than not getting it.

So, on the whole from what the results and rewards are a placement of first in the league has an equal change of a GF win as fifth but also carries the additional prize of the LLS."

Which is where I came in. I pointed out that mathematically what you say above isn't correct. The chances of winning are related to mathematical probabilities and while you can adjust those for things like home advantage etc the differences between the different play off systems will remain.



The Mathematics dictates what the rewards are for where you finish and given that under a top 8 system the rewards are less than the top 5 system it makes the league games less meaningful. That is the link between what I am saying and the topic.

My conclusion as to how where you finish matters (which dictates how meaningful the league games are) is 1-4 it makes no difference at all. 5th? Well if you assume that home advantage guarantees a win in round 1 that puts your chances up to 12.5% but then that will apply to 6th as well. There is just not a great deal of difference mathematically to make it worth busting a gut over winning the league if advantage in the playoffs is what you are after (as opposed to winning the league as an end in itself). So I would say finish in the top 6 is the aim and you can do that at still lose 10 games (based on 2012).

The interesting question still remains does finishing 5th give you a better chance than 4th. That hinges on whether 4 playing away in round 1 makes them less likely to win the next game and 5th playing at home more likely (that 5th wins it). I think a lot people's gut feeling is it does and if you set the chances of the outcomes accordingly in a probability calculation that would agree with that but I think the only way this will be confirmed as the most probable outcome is if it keeps happening.

I dispute the meaningless statement and given the evidence we have where the top 8 system has been in place then the placement of the team is significant and you agree, that even without teams capability a top 6 placement is significant. This has been more significant in past structures (although as you point our in a pervious comment, there are not enough data point for any statistics for this, or by extension any of the play off regimes which the SL have had, just an assumptive mathematical model).

So at the weekend, we just either gained or lost 1 point, which is 10% of the points to help stay in the top 6 based on your views.

And so the game is not meaningless, which is the entire point of the thread.

Given there are 10 games to be lost to get you from 1st down to 6th I think that casts doubt on how meaningful the league is. There is a difference between 6th being a good position and what you have to do to get it as to how meaningful the league games therefore are.



Different playoff systems like the top 5 have been used for years in other competitions such as in RL in Australia. The only one with little data is our top 8 system as it is unique. So what you say above does not follow.



Based on 2012 it's 1/32 of what we need to get 6th not 10%. We'd only need another 9 points to qualify in 6th if what you said were true!

Given we could afford to lose it and nine other games then yes it could be classed as meaningless. In fact you could argue we could lose all the games to our main rivals (Wire, Leeds, Saints and Les Cats based on 2012) and still get a top 6 finish. The fact teams don't play the percentages is something to be thankful for as a paying fan but that game just wasn't statistically important in terms of increasing our chances of winning the GF. We didn't need to win it to get the required position on the ladder. There is plenty of leeway in the system we have where you can still qualify in a good spot for the finals.

Its meaningless though as if warrington get to the cup final again. They will more than likley throw the game the week before like they have previously done.
Not saying i blame them, but it begs the question of the importance of one game over the bigger picture does it not?

What is even more frustrating is that we now have enough good teams 5 to do away completly with the playoffs amd go back to anfirst past the post system.

The ultimate irony is that the playoffs where to stop a one team domination. Its hard to argue thqt it has done this.

And dont come with the level playing field crap. It was a level playing field and always has been. Just some teams decided they couldnt be bothered to play at that level.