I initially thought Clubb was quite subdued i.e. not his usual biff and bash self, but then I came round to the view that he was actually trying to be disciplined and keep to his position. I think that's probably something we're going to have to accept, given the criticism he's had in the past for loose positional play. But then I didn't think our backs were the problem on Saturday, the problem is the lack of physical presence in the pack, we seldom hit the ball up with pace, we're more likely to see Sharp do that, whilst our forwards come on to the ball flat with no pace and make about 5 metres if they're lucky. Part of it is the weakness at halfback, Orr is struggling to run it by himself and Gale doesn't look like he can be a starting halfback at this level (fine coming off the bench as an impact hooker).

Yes but is our coach or chairman going to recognise the major fundamental weakness we have in the pack and halves? Clubb having a quiet game is nitpicking when we've got no go forward and only one effective halfback in the squad?

The clock is definitely ticking for McDermott and QuinsRL. Paul Blanchard is getting his act together with sponsorships etc but without an attractive form of open rugby the increase in crowds won't happen. People may turn up if a team entertains but winning or losing by a few points in a bore-fest will just turn people off. In London people have too many alternatives and if ain't entertaining they simply won't come. Unless McDermott changes his mindset or goes, we are doomed, it is as simple as that IMO.

that even some of the so called journeyman Aussies understood what the club was about and where it stood in the general British game and appeared to want to play in the colours and appreciate what it meant to do so for a London club.

Was that in part due to having a coach who had played for the club and knew what message to give players such as Cram, Retchless, Moran, Millard etc?

Maybe Nudenut could shed some light on that aspect.

Spot on poplar.

The Aussie journeymen loved playing for the club I guess - a nice atmosphere within, the blokes were probably all mates with each other off the pitch and enjoyed being effectively an Australian team with an Aussie coach. And they put in 100% to entertain the supporters and earn their crust. Fantastic. Now we have a draconian coach, English journeymen who aren't good enough, and a smattering of talent from the South.

I'm really struggling to understand the fascination with having an English team. As far as I am concerned, I couldn't care less if the blokes were from Bangladesh, as long as they played entertaining rugby that I could go along, watch, and enjoy, and hopefully pick up a few wins. I realise the quota rules are tighter than they were, but other teams seem to manage it.

I always felt when I went to the Broncos that we had a fighting chance going into any match, and now I am just feeling that defeat is inevitable every week, and I'm getting to the stage where I'm not even bothered because its a crap club to support at the moment. God knows what occasional supporters think. Does anyone honestly expect us to give Warrington a game next week?

'League Express' has us down as finishing bottom this season, which is very hard to argue with. The nagging thought that keeps coming to me is that we're not even going to apply for a franchise in the next round - our player recruitment would certainly appear to be directed at a long term future in the Co-Op leagues!!

:kxsq96l8

:kxsq96l8

These are two (what would seem to be) opposing viewpoints, but I agree with both. These are my thoughts after thinking about the game and the situation for a little longer.
[1 Some of the players we have coming through from London and SE are very, very good. I think many of these players have bright futures and I am super super enthused about the prospect of seeing a good team made up of home grown talent (and these players gaining representative honours etc.).

[2 I know there is an element of cutting your coat to suit your cloth, but without naming names (you can fill in the gaps), some of our signings in no way represent young and upcoming English talent. They are neither young nor promising, some aren't even "experienced heads", because they've spent many years of their career in the lower leagues. I would much rather see their places go to our local talent (given our funds). In fact, the only difference I can see between "journeyman Aussies" and "journeymen from the North" is that by and large the Aussies were better.

[3 The quota has been poorly managed. We have 2x spaces available. This isn't widely publicised, but before Chad Robinson left McDermott went on record saying that we could, but are choosing not to fill Gafa's spot and are instead focusing on what we have. After one game, with 18 fit players left* and Louie facing a ban, he is not exactly looking like Socrates.
[size=85:kxsq96l8*McDermott's own words form the Super League show.[/size we had no idea all of last season, when there were was plenty of grass to practice on. This is just a cover for the fact McDermott can't coach good attacking rugby.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I go out of loyalty and continue to renew season tickets but after Wakey took the lead I resigned myself to yet another defeat. Apart from BJB there's no spark out there and although I don't want to start the call for Mac's head after just one defeat, its not just one is it? Something's got to change, we're stuck in a rut, treading water! If Brian can't or won't change his coaching style then bring in someone else who might be able to turn things around.

As well as Saturday's 'performance' with less than 4,000 (and a good number of them from Wakey) at the Stoop I'm really worried about our SL status. The RFL has protected us thus far but how much longer will they continue to? I suppose it would be much easier to bring in more punters if the team is doing well,so its got to be time for Mac to be given a deadline to improve things or go. W hatever happens we're not going in the direction we are supposed to be going in. Makes me get a bit misty eyed for the Broncos days when at least we used to get a sniff of the playoffs / cc final from time to time.

Ah the old irony cop out, last resort in an argument lost.

Now Lister this is what you call irony.

How many years of near total Aussie journeyman dominated teams has it taken for you to feel brave enough to say that









Of course it would have more resonance if the said English players were any good. To be fair your doing a lot better but don't get carried away.

Anyway pedant that I am this is the list of our squad members who are english, don't really think you are in a position to lecture us - do you


The ones in bold are players produced by our system rather than Leeds



Matt Blaymire Sponsored by Watergate Leeds Ltd Full-back Squad number: one DOB: 10-06-1982 Height: 5ft 11ins (1.81m) Weight: 15stn 0lbs (95kg) 2009 appearances:...

Dale Ferguson - Sponsored by the National Federation for adoption Back row forward Squad number: eleven DOB: 13-04-1988 Height: 6ft 0ins (1.83m) Weight: 14stn 9lbs...

Kyle Bibb Prop forward Squad number: fifteen DOB: 25-01-1987 Height: 6ft 2ins (1.88m) Weight: 16stn 6lbs (106kg) 2009 appearances: 15 Former Clubs: Hull FC (2007) ...

Paul Johnson - Sponsored by Print and Proof.co.uk Centre/ Back row forward Squad number: sixteen DOB: 25-11-1978 Height: 6ft 0ins (1.83m) Weight: 15stn 2lbs (96kg) Former...

Aaron Murphy - Sponsore by EZ Clean window cleaning professionals Wing Squad number: eighteen DOB: 26-11-1988 Height: 6ft 0ins (1.83m) Weight: 14stn 4lbs (85kg) 2009...

Paul King Prop forward Squad number: nineteen DOB: 26-06-1979 Height: 6ft 1ins (1.85m) Weight: 16stn 8lbs (105kg) Former Clubs: Hull FC The former...

Cain Southernwood Half-back Squad number: twenty two DOB: 04-5-1992 Height: 5ft 10ins (1.78m) Weight: 13stn 0lbs (83kg) 2009 appearances: none Former...

James Davey Hooker DOB: 21-8-1989 Height: 5ft 9ins (1.76m) Weight: 13stn 2lbs (83kg) 2009 appearances: One game Former clubs: Wakefield Trinity Wildcats Academy

Richard Moore - Sponsored by Harratts Volvo and Honda Wakefield Prop forward Squad number: twenty five DOB: 02-12-1981 Height: 6ft 2ins (1.90m) Weight: 17stn 0lbs (108kg) ...

Matthew Wildie Utility Back Squad number: twenty six DOB 25-10-1990 Height: 5ft 9ins (1.76m) Weight: 13stn 2lbs (83kg) Former clubs: Wakefield Trinity Wildcats...

Kyle Trout Prop Squad number: twenty eight DOB: 01-03-1991 Height: 6ft 2ins (1.88m) Weight: 16stn 3lbs (103kg) Made his senior debut for the Wildcats in the 2009 Cravendale...

Dale Morton Wing Squad number: twenty three DOB: 31-10-1990 Height: 5ft 10ins (1.78m) Weight: 13stn 1lb (85kg) 2009 appearances: 3 (one try) Former Clubs:...

Russ Spiers Prop/ Back row forward Squad number: twenty seven DOB: 28-04-1991 Height: 6ft 0ins (1.83m) Weight: 15stn 8lbs (99kg) Yet another product of the highly successful...

Matthew King Wing or Centre Squad number: twenty nine DOB: 25-06-1991 Height: 5ft 10ins (1.78m) Weight: 12stn 10lbs (81kg) Matthew was the leading try scorer in the Academy during...

Sean Gleeson - Sponsored by John and Kirsty Buckley & Boys Centre/ wing Squad number: three DOB: 29-11-1987 Height: 6ft 0ins (1.83m) Weight: 14stn 13lbs (95kg) 2009...

Danny Cowling Centre Squad number: Thirty DOB: 07-12-1991 Height: 6ft 1ins (1.88m) Weight: 14stn 0lbs (89kg) Having just missed out on being selected...

Luke George - Sponsored by Maureen Cummings Wing Squad number: five DOB: 13-10-1987 Height: 5ft 11ins (1.80m) Weight: 14stn 6lbs (92) 2009 appearances: 7 (nine tries) ...

Danny Brough - sponsored by Imtech G & H Scrum half/ Stand off half Squad number: seven DOB:15-01-1983 Height: 5ft 3ins (1.70) Weight: 12stn (76kg) 2009...

Terry Newton - Sponsored by Wakefield Bathrooms - The bathroom design & installation specialists Hooker Squad number: nine DOB: 07-11-1978 Height: 5ft 9ins (1.76m) ...

George, Bibb and Gleeson were all signed as under 19's so there pretty close to home grown.

Yes we have our journeymen, but they are good journeyman. Also in JD and Obst we have two very long serving loyal players who are anything but journeymen. So 19 English players, 12 of which are home produced out of a squad of 29. That leaves 10 overseas player, one of whom Henderson was born in Torquay and JD, Obst and Korki who have been with the club for at least five years. I can live with stats like that.

Heck I enjoyed getting that off me chest

Mate do yourself a favour and stick to winding up the Tigers supporters, you are missing the target big time here. As already said many times most Quins supporters have a soft spot for Wakey and see some similarities between the clubs, this thread is not really about Trinity and how good/bad/indifferent/will win GF/won't win GF you are, it's about QRL and how freaking poor we are especially one game in after playing your mob, which is the only yardstick we can use in 2010.

Very few teams come racing out the blocks and I doubt any Trinity supporter would be 100% satisfied with the win over us, but you did get the two points, and as it stands will almost certainly be above us come seasons end.

Now do one and let us get back to moaning about our lot and our coach without your interuptions

I know, but it livens up an otherwise dull day. TBH it was just an exercise to reassure myself that we were not a team of journeymen



Cas fans wind themselves up, they need no help from me

To be honest PTB, I tend to find many of your postings just a bit too negative and pessimistic, but this time I believe you're spot on.

I didn't get to Sunday's game so can't comment on that specifically (though I did listen to the depressing Radio Leeds commentary - couldn't get a peep out of the R. London feed, suspect I may have been the only one trying to listen.

). But based on what I saw at the end of last season, the crux of the issue is the lack of skill. We desperately need a couple of players with spark, originality, flair.

We have Robinson's salary and 2 quota spots to play with. If we can't afford to use them, I struggle to see a way forward.

Maybe we're wrong and with a real game behind them the guys will produce the goods at Wire. And we're missing 4 first choice players to start the season, we have their returns to look forward to.

Let's see: tick ... tick ... tick ..

OK, I wasn't there to witness the game but let's get real here. We have lost our opening game to a side that finished 5th last year and that has recruited well in the off season. It was a game that few fans expected us to win.

We had 1 pre-season run out and that was never going to be enough, especially as Mac said we gave the Skolars the ball to test our defence???? The 2 quota spaces and robinsons salary will I suspect remain un-used as we need to balance the books and I am sad to say that Salford, Ourselves, possibly Crusaders and maybe one other will spend the season fighting to avoid the wooden spoon.......not ideal, but as a london RL fan, not something unusual either. The play-off years were achieved with some pretty good Anzacs, but we have laid our stall out to promote our own talent so it may take another 3 or 4 years before we get to see P-O rugby again. Remember, before it all fell apart last year we were punching well above our weight, so we CAN DO IT.

This is D-day for the club. We have ticked the development box and the ground/location boxes but we need to worry about the financial and crowd boxes this year. I know it'seasy for me to say this from over here, but this is the season that the club REALLY NEED THE FANS TO STICK WITH IT. If we lose fans, or don't add significant numbers then I fear for the next round of licence allocations......
IL and DH will sort out the finance stuff between themselves and PB has done enough (sponsors et al) to show that he knows what he is doing, but if the fans desert the club, then the last 30 years may well have been in vain (apart from the great amateur set up in the SE that exist)......

I am often the first to jump on the back of the club for lack of activity, but to be fair, they really are having a go this year and as such I would suggest that every fan takes advantage of the 2-4-1 offer for the Catalan Derby.....it would be great to see a 5,000 crowd for that game and all it would take is every ST holder to get 2 mates to spend £7.50 each and every casual fan to bring a mate to do this........

Sorry mate cannot agree, yes Trinity are a good side but they are and always should be a side we measure ourselves against, and at no point in the past have I ever gone to see a game with them expecting us to lose.........the only reason perhaps few fans expected us to win this time is that in essence, apart from the months in between, jack all has changed from the second half of last season and even worse, little can be seen to relieve that perception.

Yeah we will get a do or die win against a bigger club, but it is only papering over the cracks which by now are pretty damn wide.

Not saying we expected them to lose....but let's face it, nobody was suprised that we did. Agree will get the "shock" win again and doubly agree that it will be a papering exercise, but there is no way we have a squad that, at present, will trouble the touts at Old Trafford, Wembley or even a PO game.....just being a realist and pointing out that the fans need to stick with the club this year more than ever.

Gutters, is this really you? You look from a safe distance but we see what is a plain as the nose on our faces. We are going backwards in relation to the squad and the playing style. We will stick with the club (we have nowhere else to go) but as Wakey & Cas are our benchmark sides (no money!) we have to try and keep the club and point out obvious failings.

I agree. The squad and style of play are weaker than I can recall as a fan ( if the reports are all true)......what I was saying is that although as fans we expect/want/crave/desire a competitive side on the pitch, we have to understand that we can't compete financially until we have the cash in the bank. In the past, the club have nearly gone to the wall....but we made 2 play-offs so that's OK is it? We need to cut our cloth accordingly and this year that means having a workmanlike squad that in all probability will struggle all season.
I don't look from a safe distance by the way...I look and I feel the pain of defeat as much as if I had been there......it would take more than 12,000 odd miles to stop me being a fan......it is nice and sunny though

Spot on.

Steve Folkes is doing a little bit of coaching at Wests Tigers, but he'd probably jump at the chance to be a head coach again.

We can bring friends along as we are always being asked and encouraged to do but without passion and excitement on the pitch they won't come back. Our friends and colleagues do not have the love for RL that we have and therefore the vital ingredients need to be there for them to return. David Hughes is magnificent in his support of the club, Paul Blanchard has turned things around off the pitch and sponsorship is healthy, BM has let us down. There is no imporvement whatsoever. No big names to grab media attention or put bums on setas. Nothing to bring the media out of the woodwork and finally have the chance to report on the flair and excitement the team have. If we want to survive (and it is looking increasingly like we will not) we need a coach who can cut the mustard and also names to set the pitch alight. I know we have very little money but sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. Even my rose tinted glasses can't see where a win will come from.

While i agree wilt this sentiment in general, the atmosphere at the wakey match was dreadful from the start and that is entirely our own fault, not the players, not the coach, not the lack of marketing

That's cause I'm off the booze until May...

Thing is I went to the game thinking that we hadn't strengthened our side following a dismall 2nd half of last season; last season we lacked direction due to having only one good halfback (Orr), and we were light going forward. Even worse two of last season's better performers Purdo and Temata were out. Fair enough we were not as lacklustre as end of last season, but I was just sat there waiting for the worst to be confirmed: no go forward, no direction. It's hard to get enthusiastic about a side that plays a limited game and isn't really going anywhere with that either.

I suppose I could sit there and cheer my head off as Gale does his roadkill impersonation on the 5th, or cheer Sharp on as he plays makeshift prop up the middle, or clap Ward as he plods on to the ball with no pace or intensity for a whopping 5 metres made?