I would suggest the gate receipts from tho game are fairly irrelevant to them. The first home game is massive for them. Give their new fans a bad experience and they may not return. If I was Toronto's owner I would tell my marketing team their job is the first home home game, and the games that follow before they return to Brighouse, not London. Pass on contacts, as they did to Skolars, but their resources are required elsewhere.

Totally agree marketing in London isn't easy and to do it properly requires a budget the club may not have. Whether carrying on as is for much longer is plausible remains to be seen.

Mate, am not gonna argue about the plausibility of remaining as we are. Sadly it us the state of the game in this country, it's reliant on folk like DH to keep putting the money in.
I am amazed that we are still full time! But it's not just us, I doubt many sports teams total could survive if they had to live within there income.

We are in the chicken and egg conundrum. Folk will walk away when you are not winning, start winning folk start coming back, but that's also tempered by the opposition. Those who might have accidently come across a Wigan Cas, game on sky or accidently seen CC final on BBC might be tempted but unlikely to bother coming to see Batley or Swinton.
So to get fans back start winning and compete in Super League, to get back to Super League you need to spend, to spend you need fans coming through the gate.

Well they could do nothing as seems to be your bizarre preference and get a 500 crowd, or do what skolars did and get a 1500+ crowd.

Tims got an e mail today so that's more than nothing! What got the crowd at skolars? Marketing? They didn't try and tempt me to come! Did skolars get 1500 because it was going to be a sporting spectacle of two teams competing for honours? Or did 1500 people turn up because it was a first? Thoughts?
It had a USP of being an historic fixture that's it. That game promoted itself!

Any newcomers to rugby league who went to that game, how many do you think would be likely to come back? Let's be serious it was not a great game of rugby league, not really a classic to grab the enthusiasm of a new supporter.

What's the USP of our game? You can only have one FIRST competitive pro game.

As for my bizarre preference, you obviously choose not to read my post, all I ask is who do you promote the game too? What's the point in sending marketing to me, I am coming anyhow, I would suggest you are the same.

We will never know the answer to this, but had the wolfpack game been this week, rather than last week and the second game rather than the historic first would the crowd have still been as good?

Their first competitive game was Siddall not Skolars.

I'd suggest had it been the other way around Broncos would have seen a decent gate as RL fans would come along anyway. Probably not as big as we though as they reached out beyond the RL community into the expat Canadian community and turned it into an event. I doubt Broncos would have done that. You are quite right in saying marketing needs to go beyond those already committed to attending.

It does if you buy a ticket Mick!!

I would definitely not just have come anyway, I hardly get to games these days but was going to come and bring some others as it's Toronto and should be a close game. BUT I'm seriously thinking of not coming now as there'll be no buzz around the game as i was expecting, if the Broncos don't try to sell it. If a new Canadian club with a real buzz around it and some good quality players isnt worth a go at selling to people what is? Lots of neutral RL fans would be tempted and there are thousands and thousands in the SE. The sort that go in their droves to CC finals and England internationals but not regular club games. Sell it FFS!

Confused here! So the crowd is more important than the rugby, find that quite confusing.

As far as the media and everyone else in the game was concerned the first professional game for wokfpack was last week, siddal are an amateur club!

Anyhow let's just hope it's a good game however many turn up.

Halfdan, i think you misunderstood me, question I was asking was had Toronto first game have been drawn differently and if they had played Whitehaven last week and had skolars this week woukd skolars have been able to generate the interest they did. Last week was a first it can never be repeated hence the interest.

Skolars wasn't their first competitive game, Siddal was. Skolars was their first league game.

Skolars did get a lucky break in getting the first league game bit deserve credit for what they did with it. Would Broncos have done the same?

Thought I said first professional game my bad.
As for broncos it's an irrelevant question they are in different competitions! So it could not have happened
So what was the hull kr gate? What was the Bradford gate? The CC game is a championship team playing a NL 1 team what's the USP if it was that interesting BBC woukd have come for a look, reality is there are better news stories in Haydock
What's special that will drag folk in on a Friday night as opposed to any other game?

You keep stating this as undisputed fact but the Broncos crowds disappeared long before the club was relegated, and to a large extent even before the losing set in. There was a long term decline in crowds caused by the club itself in the way it was run and the way it treated fans. Hardcore fans btw, people who'd been going for years and years.

Of course having a successful team helps but it's a very, very long way from the full story with regards to London Broncos.

Naderia I get that. I suppose it's an attitude to the game.

For me I cannot understand the thing of walking away from the sport you love because you don't like the owner or back room staff, I don't get this "how fans are treated thing" not sure what people expect.
But for me rugby league has always been turning up at the gate paying my money watching 80mins of rugby and going home. It's never been about getting drunk, post match entertainment etc etc. News about the club for me has been through whatever media was available at the time be it paper press, or these days the ww interweb. I dont need them to be calling me or messaging me to tell me when they are playing and who i can find that out myself easily. Who runs and how the club is run has always been and always will be out of my hands, so what's the point is stamping my feet about it.
So again,I say this is me and my views on the game How do I expect the club to treat me? Give me what I pay for which is 80mins of rugby league every now and again. If the club provide somewhere to watch the game, provide a way of me knowing when games are, and provide the right number of blokes to throw the ball about the pitch, that's it. I don't expect em to molly cuddle me, I don't demand that they tell me how they fund it or run the business etc etc. For me I don't care about post match entertainment or which band us playing. So far the club in my eyes have achieved that, agree moving around has not been ideal, but it's not them treating me badly it's them trying to provide me what I ask for. If the club take my needs re the ground for etc, then someone else's needs are not being met.
If the club need my opinion then they will ask me.
If for other folk what's happening away from the pitch us more important than the 80 mins of rugby then fine, but you can't change it, so you either accept it and still enjoy the sport. Or walk away and deny yourself the sport.
Again for me it's the sport that's important! I feel sorry for those that have the other view they are denying themselves tge live sport experience.

Mickey for lots of people in many sports the game is only part of the day. For many, this is there one day out every 2 weeks so they do like to meet with mates, have food, have a chat, possibly a beer (I note how you exaggerate the have a beer to getting drunk which seems to be your typical extended approach) If its important to the club to have an income then they will need to attract part time fans, female fans, youngsters, disabled fans, fans that don't know the sport like you, as you may note be a typical fan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing

Mickey for lots of people in many sports the game is only part of the day. For many, this is there one day out every 2 weeks so they do like to meet with mates, have food, have a chat, possibly a beer (I note how you exaggerate the have a beer to getting drunk which seems to be your typical extended approach) If its important to the club to have an income then they will need to attract part time fans, female fans, youngsters, disabled fans, fans that don't know the sport like you, as you may note be a typical fan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing

Exiled, I take your point, but just firing the question back, the things you talk about at out current ground and our two previous grounds when has this nit been the case?
All 3 had a bar/cafe and somewhere to gather pre and post match to get refreshments chat meet friends etc at the stoop we had face painting for kids etc, at Trailfinders am sure they have that sort of stuff, Barnet am not sure so can't comment.
Using Barnet as our low point, we had the bar/cafe gathering area, they had food available they had tv showing live sport, ok very little interaction with the players but that's the only real difference.
I still don't see how the club ever denied anyone the opportunity to have the whole match day out. Whatever age gender or physical abilities.

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If we are relying solely on away fans (Bradford, Hull KR) to raise gates to an even vaguely acceptable level then we may as well give up. Perhaps we could do what All Golds have done and switch matches to northern venues, we can really shout about our crowds then and we don't even need to market the game. On second thoughts scratch that, the club might think it's a good idea.

I'm pretty sure that had London been able to play at a suitable time for the Beeb it would have been on TV. They are both interesting back stories but one, if Oldham go for it, will be a mis-match. The other one probably won't be. People tend to switch off mis-matches, something the Beeb sports team won't want given there will be a review of the streaming of early CC rounds held later to see if the cost can be justified next year.

Actually I agree our home core group of fans is pretty small and we are and always have been reliant on away fans.
It takes us back to marketing though and who do you target and what games. In relation to the game on Fri and targeting. What is the special pull on this game for the dormant northern RL fan living in London? Very little! What was the pull to get the extra numbers to Skolars, have said it before it was a first!
What's special about this game for the kiwis, Queenslanders and NSW fans in the area? They are not getting to watch any Australian players of any note playing here so very little draw.
So far the game in Canada is Toronto thats all and even that has not started yet! I would suggest any Toronto residents might have a passing interest but I doubt many other Canadians would be that interested.
We need to draw more fans in! How do we do it? If I had the answer am pretty sure someone at the club would have found the same answer.
Am not suggesting give up on Fri night but blowing a big chunk of budget on it would be a waste in my opinion, so let's be realistic, if we win and get a home draw in the next round against a SL outfit then push it.
Long term! Who knows?

I'd market this one as a corporate post work corporate opportunity primarily. Skolars report having made good corporate link ups from their game and that was on a Sunday. That's the route with potentially the quickest return. Skolars have at least part of the answer so well worth liaising with them.

I'd actually be wary of pushing a next round draw v say Wigan too hard. A likely blow out, that wouldn't appeal to first timers. A push to lost season ticket holders might be worth it though. If Broncos are going to go for it frankly bung Skolars a few quid and let them organise the day with a quid pro quo they can plug their next home game on a day Broncos are away. They have a proven track record of running one off big game events, no point re-inventing wheels.

At one point there was a hardcore of about 2,000 fans who'd go weekly, and another 2-3,000 who'd pick and choose games to attend based on other factors (opponents, form, personal circumstances, venue (of course!), etc). That tallies with a report in football a few years back where they estimated most fans of a club would go to circa 25% of home fixtures over the course of a season. From that the Broncos now have, what, 400 hardcore and however many picking and choosing?

The former was sustainable, within the right environment, and could have been built upon. Settling for the latter is akin to entering a death spiral.

Genuine question - has there been any work done to contact those lost supporters (thousands of them) in a bid to establish why they left and what could possibly bring them back?

Naderia, for a potential Super League team 2000 is nowhere near enough to be self sufficient. Not sure about this 25% of games you mention, I would hope a core support might actually at most miss 25% not attend.
Why people walk away is pretty varied. On field performance! A season winning only 1 game in the year hurts. Off field, location for some people! Cost!
Some folk don't like the way the club is run. They have all been mentioned.
All those that walked away for what ever reason for me it's wasted effort chasing them too much, pretty sure if they have any interest they still follow the club on all the media that is out there! How will repeating what they see to them make them any more inclined to come back? If an ex season ticket holder is not even watching the club on media out there, then I doubt a mail shot from the club is going to reinvigorate there interest in Rugby League.
My mind the club should be targeting corporate, they should be targeting the big aussie audience out there, they should be targeting big companies.
A lapsed season ticket holder.
Should the club be doing everything it can? Yes! Is it doing that? Obviously not! But it's not a straight fwd issue

What would it cost to send lapsed ST holders from the Stoop a free ticket to a game and a pint of beer on arrival to entice them back for a taster. Im sure some would take it back up.

A simple email may work for some of the pickers-and-choosers, very occasionals and lapsed speccies. Amazed that something with such little cost and effort attached is not done. 400 diehards and declining seems to be the limit of ambition.

You misread my post. The 2,000 or so were the hardcore. Then a similar number of occassionals picking and choosing. The 25% attendance guide was for the latter group. But they've all gone now and, apparently, both you and the club see no value in attempting to win them back.

Instead chasing that mythical Aussie audience that rarely, if ever, showed any interest in the club. Instead chasing a corporate audience to come and sit in a sports ground pavilion.

There's that death spiral.