Yep.

Looks like good value to me.

If we don't get more people through the gates, we will become a selling club.

Sad but true.

I pay about £200 for three season tickets (me and the kids). Assuming we pay double that in programmes, drinks and merchandise, that's £133 per head per season. If we're losing £1.5m pa, we would need attendances of about 15,000 on that basis to break even! Sure, a club that was doing that well would attract much more sponsorship and corporate interest, but we're deluded if we think we're one good push from financial security.

Ian Lenegan said in 2006 that £9.85 was the average price of a ticket to watch a game. If that was still the case in 2009, 44,670 people paid £440k last year to watch games with the average gate of 3,346.
It would be impossible to recoup the reported 1.5 or 2 million losses through ticket sales alone because we would need to fill the ground every week to do so.........
I do wonder where this money is all going though? We get a fair wedge from SKY and probably a few bob in shirt sales etc, together with the shirt sponsors, but to be shipping 30k a week all year, or 55k a week during the season would seem very very very bad business.
1.5 from Sky
44k on the gate
say another 250 in residual/sponsors etc.........£2,190,000 income gives us 78k a week to run the club during the season or 42k a week all year.
Squad of 30ish........office staff of about 5, community team of about 10......where the hell is all the money going?say the average wage in the office/community team is £30k....then there's 8.5k a week. Have no idea what the squad cost, nor MAC or Mr Blanchard.......but if you take the all year figures of 42k income and 30k losses.........it just points to a badly run business.
As others have said.......not the most stable of environs at all.

Smart calculation. Financial statement says turnover was £2,146,378.
Administrative expenses £4,083,182. Hence operating loss £1,936,804.

Thank you David Hughes.






So his season ticket costs him about £150,000 per game.

I didn't even look at the statement....

Maybe I should have applied for the accounts job instead of Marketing



Sorry, but something isn't right at TW2 Towers.....that level of loss would sink most Soccer teams outside the premiership and our reliance on DH is a risky thing.
13 home games at 14,500 is 188,500 fans at £9.85 is £1,913,705...so 11,000 more fans at each game next year and we will cut that loss to £440k....easy peasy lemon squeezy



On the subject of £150k a game......he could probably decrease the debt next year by simply charging everyone £5 a ticket.....unallocated or £10 allocated through beer and food revenues.......6k would give him the same income with 3,000 more mouths/livers to feed? 3,000 more opportunities to sell shirts etc......3,000 more people to tell their mates how much craic it is......

Here is someone who should not be allowed near a calculator !!

Like pointing out spelling mistakes, being a pedant is another example of a poster having nothing relevant to bring to the debate.


13 home games, 14,500 capacity = 188,500 fans, at £9.85 is £1,856,725.....less the 3,500 average we already have, £448,175 leaves $1,400,000 in extra revenue......so it would reduce the debt to APPX £550k......

Still, no need to worry about attendances.....the Massive Sponsorship deals with WIN ans Lensbury will generate enough revenue on their own



As for me saying that all unallocated seats at £5 and allocated at £10 next year would maybe generate more revenue.....let's just agree to disagree on how well the club have done this year with a viral that nobody say, 5,000 oyster card holders and whatever else they have tried.....

If DH is bankrolloing the club to the tune of £150k a game, surely it's time to start offering free tickets to local residents....starting with the 5,000 homes within 1.5 miles of the ground. Would only cost him the additional stewarding....a small price to pay IMO.

We've done that with the 90 pound season tickets and as you repetitively keep pointing out crowds are going down

15 pound isnt bad a price for entry

It is your flawed assumption I was being a pedant and while I agree that your calculations were (not for the first time) inaccurate my bigger concern is the flawed logic behind them.

You calculated that at an average of £9.85 per ticket even filling the stadium every week would not cover our costs. So I would be concerned that ticket revenue, even in that unlikely scenario, would not be sufficient to avoid an ongoing reliance on David Hughes's generosity. It would suggest we would need to either cut costs in a club seemingly already run on a shoestring or perhaps even increase ticket prices.

However, what you suggest is a solution that would decrease average ticket receipts on the basis that it would increase revenue from things like food and beer. The problem in that argument is that you need to consider what profit would be made. I suggest the margin made on beer and food less than that made on ticket sales (where as you point out the only variable cost is likely to be some increased stewarding).

In my view, in anything other than perhaps the long term, we need to accept that we are reliant on money from the likes of David Hughes and be extremely thankful for it. Clearly increased crowds are essential to a more stable financial footing but I believe growth will only happen on the back of stability and a competitive team. By all means give a few tickets away to encourage locals to try the game out but a business model based on a reduced average ticket income is a nonsense.

My own "soccer" club (Peterborough United) under the 3 and a bit years of new ownership has had two promotions (including 1 season in The Championship) one relegation (back to league 1/Division 3 in old money) and is in to the "owner" for around £8 million, which is considerablely less than that "loaned" by Lennagen (£2m +) and Hughes (£4.5m) and continues to banked rolled by the new owner.

And that is with a record sponsorship deal outside of the premier league and no effective salary cap although one wonders if it really does work in Rugby League at any level, but that's another debate.

Yes it's not heathy to be reliant on a benefactor but in todays professional sports I'm afraid that's what happens.

Don't know if it's been mentioned before, but the club has apparently removed the discount on merchandise to season ticket holders because it can no longer afford the discount. At the last home game against Saints I used mine to buy some stuff for my brother and got discount, but yesterday when I tried to use it against the new 30 year shirt (excellent shirt btw), I was told it's not being honoured anymore. I wasn't the only one who had the same experience.

Now initially I was told they weren't doing discount this season (as did the man in front) and we both pointed out that we'd already used it this season, to which the cashier claimed that was a mistake. But when I spoke to a friend who'd bought his shirt earlier he told me that cashier had told him and others about the recent withdrawal of the discount on cost grounds.

Now I'm not fussed about losing the discount, £3.50 is neither here nor there, and the new shirt is well worth £35, but it does bring home the way the club is being forced to shave costs.

At least it shows someone somewheres thinking about the club as a business for once.

I was also one who went into the shop to get the discount yesterday but it was pointed out that the season ticket discount expired on the 2nd May!! So not just been withdrawn but time expired...Serves me right for not looking at the small print and waiting too long to get a new shirt !!!

All I want is for the club totry something different...they have stumbled along (in the time I have follwed the team) with average gates that are not enough to cover the electric bill and yet they seem bereft of ideas or even the desire to do something about it. I know people have said that we are OK for another licence next time, but it was a major concern to the RFL last time and they felt the need to repeat their fears earlier this year/late last year......

.....4,000 and change for a double header with 6+ months in the planning goes to show how inept the marketing team at Quins are. I am not saying I could do any better....I am not saying anyone could do any better, what I am saying is something has to be done.
2 double headers...........and an average of 2,900 after 9 games....730 down on last year.....let's just hope that builders don't start turning up for work at Salford, Castleford or Wakefield.......




I KNOW THAT DAVID HUGHES BANKROLLS THE CLUB......BUT THE RFL DIDN'T EXPRESS CONCERN ABOUT OUR FINANCES...THEY EXPRESSED CONCERN REGARDING OUR ATTENDANCES....

Exactly. As far as I can see the only boxes we tick at the moment are ground standards and developement - personally I don't think our franchise renewal is as locked in as some people think.

What about 20 miles from other clubs!!!! I think we qualify for that 2 points!

We are certain of another 3 years

I would love to be optimistic, but with gates on the slide and no new money coming in it just takes a change of circumstance for David Hughes and we are stuffed. Thank god he is into oil. If we lose the likes of LMS and replace him with the likes of Williamson the downward spiral will continue. It is only the non-activity re stadiums at Cas and Wakey that make me more confident of a new license. We do need a makeover though to catch the imagination of the London public. How, where and what has always been the question for the last 30 years.

Who?

Its not a great excuse but we've had a lot of smaller clubs at home for the first half of the season, and there seems to have been less of their fans than usual. We still have Wigan, Wire, Hull and Bradford at home and 3 out of 4 of them will bring between 500-1000 guaranteed. So theres a real chance we can push our average up to the 4k mark with a decent run of form and a vague effort at a marketing push. Where would Salford, Wakey, Cas, Crusaders average be if they werent within 20-30 miles of many other SL clubs? Probably very similar to ours, Ive never seen Saints bring the amount of fans to London that they take to Salford and Cas must get 2-3k from both Hull sides and Leeds.

Anyway its not an excuse as Les Cats get 7-8k every home game.

I was 35 when I started watching the Broncos....successful at what I did and believed at the time (RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY) that I could pretty much market and sell anything. 10 years down the line and I am still full of myself (you don't say

) but the puzzle that is Quins RL and crowds is maybe a bridge to far....as I have said before, I have friends in agencies in town and others who have made far more money than me in Marketing services and they, to a man/woman have scratched their heads when we have discussed the problem.

You may laugh when I say I couldn't do any better, but without any idea of what budget has been made available for promoting the game or what restrictions are in place it's hard to assess. What I have suggested over the years are ways that not only I came up with, but greater marketing minds as well and I have always tried to justify the cost involved when I have suggested spending money. What I will say is on paper, the Viral may have seemed like a good idea, the oyster card holder I would have had doubts about and the latenesss of offers being promoted on facebook is just inept.....But I digress from the thread (again

).....


David Hughes is a saint.....without him, there would be no LONDON club other than Skolars in the upper leagues of RL, but it is both unfair and stupid to rely on him time and time again. It's time to try to cut the apron strings and for the club to stand on its own 2 feet. To do this, cuts will have to be made in areas that are costing money but not generating any. 70k a week is a hell of a lot of money to be spending to run a loss of 30k a week........and let's be honest, regardless of the wealth held by DH.......that's a hell of an expensive hobby.

So given the above, why do you post so much e ?

See.....this is the problem I face when dealing with people like you. You have a go and do so by either pointing out spelling mistakes, maths errors or just inane name calling. One poster in your "god will he ever shut up" group even went as far as to incorrectly question where and how I made my money....something that I will never forget or forgive.....I don't make personal attacks on individuals, unless I can back them up with facts, but it would seem that all you and your buddies have is personal insults.
"The Poop" that you mention is how I make my living...so there must be some truth in the expression, where there's muck, there's brass


If it's poop....and I don't say it isn't, then what have the paid members of staff at the club, people with degrees and experience, done?

I care about the issue.....because regardless of hom many LMS's we produce, without 1 man, there would be no club and that is not healthy (let's hope he stays healthy)...and I will contine to post on the subject. I leave the match reports to thiose who were there and the ref baiting to those who want to do that, but attendances are directly linked to all aspects of the club...without income, less money gets spent on development, less on promotion, less on players...less on pretty much everything.
BACK On thread topic..........
I repeat...spending 70k a week to lose 30k is not a good business model!