But them Sky RL tv fans, do they go to Harlequins and help support them?

To be honest I think this name change is the start of the potential winding down of the club in three years time. David Hughes is on record as saying he will fund us for three more seasons. Given he is retiring it seems unlikely he will single handedly fund us beyond that point. Meaning that unless funding appears in the next three years the future of the club is somewhat murky beyond that point. (It should be remembered that David has been appealing for other investors to come forward since Virgin pulled out, there hasn't exactly been a stampede of people willing to help.)

So in three years time Quins RU were staring down the barrel of a team called Quins RL potentially ceasing to exist. Not good news for the image / brand. Could it be that Quins RU have asked us to change name to avoid this scenario - or that David Hughes is just a top bloke and has decided to change it to spare Quins RU potential embarrassment further down the line?

I know many posters are pleased to be returning to London Broncos identity but to me this looks suspiciously like the beginning of the end. If anyone knows any RL friendly millionaires David awaits the call and I sincerely hope to be proven wrong.

Schools in traditional league areas are now playing more union areas than ever and in the South there is more league played in schools than ever. I would not say it was realism to say there was a north/south divide, I would say that it was oversimplifying the issue, but it is fair to say that last year the three northern Aviva Premiership sides did struggle on and off the field, and the single southern (English) Engage Super League side suffered on and off the field.

How many Man Utd fans living in London went to watch West Ham, Fulham, Crystal Palace, QPR, Charlton, Wimbledon, etc It is not as easy as saying figures have shown there have on occasions been more fans watching SL fixtures in the South than in the North, and therefore Harlequins should have the highest gate, but they should attempt to tempt them to games by offering free tickets through Sky Rewards and show them, or remind them that SL is something that is worth attending live in London.

Then do we do the same with Salford, Wakefield perhaps even Hull KR the list goes on! I bet there is only Wigan and Leeds that pay their way, so it is not just London that is a get out it is the game in general, should it ever have gone full time? why was the Sky money wasted from day one on purely players wages and nothing else! yes some players yes did deserve better pay but there were far too many average players on high salaries lots more than the average worker!

Have you seen some of the attendances in The Championship? real heartland clubs can't get higher attendances than Sheffield now get?

Finally if you really are a True Realist and not a closeted Flat Capper, what a certain team called Wigan Warriors who no longer own their own ground, what would happen if Mr Whelan pulled the exit door open (not as if he could afford to do it currently 16,000 in the Premiership a Joke) and kick the Rugby League team out? could you afford a ground, Yes You do get amazing crowds and I praise your marketing team highly for what they do but I bet even you need the Sky money! who are the Governors of our game, without them we are once again semi pro! that is realism!

Whelan, can't kick us out just yet. Think we have a contract for 25 yrs. Wigan Athletic need us in that stadium. I agree with you, all SL teams need Sky money. Granted you have done wonders with the kids down there, but again are they attending matches or they off watching footie instead.

Who says Whelan can't get rid of you! don't make me laugh! there is no contract these days that is water tight and if he ever decided you were ruining his special football team's chance you would be out on your backsides before you can say PIES!
that
Even St Helens with all it's great success can pull in the crowds that you do at Wigan and I'm not just talking about this season! there are about FOUR TEAMS! that can bring in weekly 10,000 plus attendances which is a disgrace all the money that has come into the game! I don't bury my head in the sand yes we have problems in London, but it is going to take a winning team and some stability for us to then start to really market the game as it should have been done since the start, that is as much a fault of the RFL as the owners we have had.

* 19,169 at Wigan tonight for The Big One, again their marketing works!

No the kids are often playing RLthe same time as Quins, and if games do finish before 2.00 given the distance many have to travel cannot get to the Stoop for 3.--pm kick offs.

Has the club considered changing the days and times of matches, eg Friday night or Sunday afternoon. At least the kids will have a chance of seeing games.

Yes many times. All sorts of surveys, game day changes etc. Just check where the posters on this site come from (personally I'm from Hampshire) and you'll see that no one day will be good for all. (I have missed a handful of games in 13 years as a season ticket holder, one was this season as I couldn't make it after work on a Friday evening.) Basically we need to pick to one day and time and stick to it. Chopping and changing days just upsets people to be honest.

I'm going from memory here so could be wrong but I don't think you were lambasted for saying it wouldn't work. I think what upset many people was you turned it into a class thing. Personally I'm from Wolverhampton but from a middle class family. The two people to my left in the stand are from Scotland RL / Westcombe Park RU. I have no idea about their background but both would be middle class by their current employment. To my right is the Barnes RUFC proggie editor. Again no idea as to his upbringing but a middle class job. To his right is a bloke from Basingstoke RUFC. Probably retired, no idea as to is background but I suspect middle class. So five people in a row, four RU fans, personally I'm a football fan. From previous postings on this site I'm comfortable we ain't the only middle class RL fans in southern England. At a time the club was attempting to win over Quins RU fans to turn to class war wasn't great news.

As it happens I play cricket with a family of Quins RU fans. The parents are working class but have no interest in RL. Their oldest son is about to graduate, who knows what class he will end up as.........

By the way Poplar if you want to debate this point off line I'm happy to do so. I'm the one who you used to talk about Prescot Panthers to.

Careful........if it can be edited it will be

Saturday afternoons are probably the best for the club IMO, not having access to all the data that the club does.

A three o'clock kickoff allows opposition fans to come down for the day. The top 4 will double our attendences.

Friday evenings require them to take time off work, and Sundays puts pressure on families with kids going to school on Monday mornings.

If you have to drive around the M25 on a summer Saturday afternoon you would not say that. This is one reason why we don't come to the games anymore as it takes twice as long as it usually does on a Sunday.

I also would prefer Sunday afternoon kick-offs. My reason? Purely selfish, I'm afraid -
Work Fridays
Work Saturday until around 13.30
Not many people driving to Lahndin on Sunday lunchtime
After the match (and post-match debate in the Kings), most of the traffics heading the other way
I live 96 miles away. Calculate journey time
Seeing as a lot of us live somewhere called 'other', I'd imagine this reasoning is not uncommon.

As I said, Selfish. And I am prepared to go at whatever day/time is most likely to create the largest gate, but still prefer Sunday.

For a more productive discussion what should be our target audience?

Should it be scatter gun - I think not as we don't have the resources it has to be targeted.

It all depends whether we stay at the Stoop, but there has been little response from the little marketing we have done in the area. I think it should be soccer fans who can't afford Premier League prices, we have had success before from Fulham and Brentford fans and the gate against PSG in 1996 was based on ads in football programmes. I think we have scraped the barrel dry with Quins RU fans.

In particular those footie fans with kids - just read a post from a KR fan about what a great time he had with his kid at the Stoop(and not just the result). Although my kids are older now the Stoop is a great family day out and good value too. I reckon one of the stands , or at least half of one could be designated a family stand, perhaps the part of the East stand where the kids zone is?

Hate to burst your bubble, but it hasn't "failed" because of the Quins tie in........it has "failed" because the club, yet again, did nothing to market itself. It's easy to jump on the Rupe1 bandwagon, but the fact remains that average gates at the stoop are no worse than they were at Griffin park.

As has been suggested by others, regardless of what the club decides, if they are awarded another 3 years next month they need to throw some serious wonga at the "launch". If they fail to grasp this nettle they will again be floundering around licence announcement time in 2014.

If we are to remain at the Stoop and if there is no interest in a 'BRANDING" deal with a decent sponsor, then I for one would like the team to be called West London _________ or Thames ___________ . London is huge and the club don't need to look at attracting new fans from Bethnal Green or Mill Hill. They need to attract fans from West London.

West London Titans or as suggested elsewhere, Thames Titans? Play in the fulham colours and get a decent kit designed...black kits sell well. Club badge needs to maybe have a map of the river (eastendersesque).

Totally irrelevant. I'm not experessing any personal preference for match day/time, but we will NEVER progress by catering to away supporters. Don't even think about them. After all, nobody else does, and that doesn't stop other clubs from being successful. Wigan play on Friday nights, they get the biggest crowds, that's not a great time for any of the seven Yorkshire clubs' supporters visiting them, but who cares? It suits Wigan, and they rightly play at a time that suits themselves. Play at 6am on a Monday morning if it pulls the crowds, but don't EVER pander to visiting supporters.

Yes....and No


I agree....it is the Local fans that we need to attract, but don't lose sight of the fact that the big 4 or 5 clubs are the biggest draw and not all of these "northern" fans come 200 miles south for the games. There are a load of ex-pat norvuners in London...HK Bronco and Wire-quin being examples.
....but in general, your comment about the audience is spot on, but I would go so far as to say we should look at working "with" the marketing teams at other clubs and putting together "offers" to attract them down as well. I bet HKA had a loud lot on Sunday and a decent offer might even entice "roofs" down



Saturday 3pm is the most popular time historically. 8 of our top 10 crowds in the last 11 years have been at this time. I know it's not good for some and during the Union Season, not always possible, but we could look at liaising with the Union lot when their fixtures come out and then ensuring that the RFL play ball,.........you never know, alternate weekends might get us some more Union fans......

I never forget that first game at Fulham, sat in the stand and looking around I saw some real London Families with their children, even with Grandma, and though they knew little about the game they enjoyed it so much and got so excited, they seemed to like the physical side of the game and you could tell they were footie fans, also so friendly.

Hell's teeth, I'm agreeing with you! West London Titans sounds good to me and I've always thought that the old Fulham kit was the best we had.

Why must we have a moniker? 'Titans'? 'Broncos'? Is there anything proven in marketing land that these have any impact whatsoever?

I think they do work and are essential for marketing aimed at and for young people, rather than just "Landan" - no problems with Titans!

Fair sized piece in this weeks "League Express" saying no decision made yet, it has to be London but what goes with it, they say one option is a sponsors name which makes sense, it does interestingly say that League Express understand an approach was made to Fullers for sponsorship with the Pride brand, but Fullers withdrew after speaking with the RFU! as they have several sponsorships with them??

In the League Express readers poll last week, which does not state how many participated, we just get % figures, percentages a marketers dream, the result:

58.1% London Broncos

25.8% London with another second name/moniker

8.1% London Quins

5.6% No name change

2.4% London Harlequins