Quote ="Tre Cool"Bonkers because people who prefer soccer cant go? RL fans should be our target market, and keeping them should be our priority after that. There are thousands of them in the SE who are exiles, aussies, armchair supporters but dont come to watch us.'" NO, NO, NO. community, community, community. the clubs play on sat morning & afternoons. The kids and their families can't come to watch their heroes. Seriously - look here and tell me how many other clubs you can find playing on Sat's at 3pm - www.superleague.co.uk/fixtures.php?rid=322 Erm. Not one. Ever. Saturday's at 3 were chosen to benefit the few hardcore keyboard warriors who voted with their fingers. 4000 people (and increasing) take to the field ever weekend in the South. They are already converted RL fans, you don't have to convince them! But they don't come 'cause a) they can't and b) they're p1ssed off at having been treated very, very averagely by a nomadic club over a long period of time. Bringing them back won't happen overnight, but will happen over a several year period of bridge building.....but at least give them the chance to support!

Quote ="Tre Cool"Bonkers because people who prefer soccer cant go? RL fans should be our target market, and keeping them should be our priority after that. There are thousands of them in the SE who are exiles, aussies, armchair supporters but dont come to watch us.'" NO, NO, NO. community, community, community. the clubs play on sat morning & afternoons. The kids and their families can't come to watch their heroes. Seriously - look here and tell me how many other clubs you can find playing on Sat's at 3pm - www.superleague.co.uk/fixtures.php?rid=322 Erm. Not one. Ever. Saturday's at 3 were chosen to benefit the few hardcore keyboard warriors who voted with their fingers. 4000 people (and increasing) take to the field ever weekend in the South. They are already converted RL fans, you don't have to convince them! But they don't come 'cause a) they can't and b) they're p1ssed off at having been treated very, very averagely by a nomadic club over a long period of time. Bringing them back won't happen overnight, but will happen over a several year period of bridge building.....but at least give them the chance to support!

Both issues you have presented are nonsense

Last year half the season was Sat and half Sun. The crowds were bigger on the Sat

All local players were given season tickets with there club memberships. It was stated by the club only 100 used them on match days.

im gonna buy you a record for your birthday

Mate - I am tired of you throwing this cack back at me, you have done it before. Wake up and smell the coffee.

This club has categorically disenfranchised the community game over a long, long period in the South.

How do I know - because I play in it and I speak to 100's of people in it every week. And I have for a long, long time. Bridges burnt over 10 years are not rebuilt over one season.

Can't you see that the biggest argument for building a community based RL club is based on the fact that NO other SL club plays games over the top of their community clubs fixtures. None. Nada.

Last years stats are completely skewed and not representative. The Saturday Wigan attendance was a freak opener, with more Wigan fans than Quins fans, plus a MASSIVE pre season push to get people in on free tickets. Also the community game hadn't started playing by then.

Inevitably if one plays Wigan, KR, Saints and Leeds on Sat's and then Cas, Cats and Bradford at the tail end of an increasingly poor season on Sundays, it's going to misrepresent the figures. Plus, seeing Paul Brown, icon of the community game and immensely well respected across it, disappear in weird circumstances mid season didn't engender a great spirit towards the club for the second half of the season.

Yes, more away fans come on Saturdays (further skewing the stats) but you do not build a club on away support.

As for the club saying that very few community clubs took advantage of the offer - they have no idea, they have never been good at keeping a CRM. It's just another knee jerk reaction to a short term perception of things not working, so we'll change it again. In the same way that they've changed ground, kit, name, staff, management, owner and attitude to community clubs for years and years and years.

A few other things - free tickets don't work in the long run. It's proven. They are valueless. Little Jimmy goes home to his mother and says - I have free tickets to Quins RL. How on earth do these tickets then ever have value? Once something is free, it's expected to be free forever. You can't attach value to it.

Cashback schemes to clubs have been tried and have worked in the past. Until the club lost the staff who put them in place and everything fell apart.....

WQ - please come back to me with some thought through, intellectual arguments instead of one off statements that you think are representative.

I don't expect a lot of sympathy for the community game on these boards - you are generally all hard core, die hard fans who come to games because you believe (like I do) that we have the best sporting product there is. But not many other Londoners agree with you and we need to embrace those that do. It's not an overnight project.....but the sooner the community game is respected and nurtured to come to games, the better.

This too might be stuck record, but believe me - in spite of their fans loving it, every Community Marketeer of every northern based club in the SL is p1ssing themselves laughing at our Saturday 3pm k.o.

I think that is absolute rubbish. Who thinks that in today's world? Ever heard of introductory offers? I get a free 90-day trial for Lovefilm but I am fully aware it is not free forever. That is a bizarre thing to say.



any evidence for that claim other than just guesswork?

I have it from the horses mouth, and more than one example. I would not let them down by providing more evidence on here but please take my word.

This club invests heavily in a community programme - look at the numbers of staff described on the website FFS. The end goal of this (and ONLY real original reason for its existence) is to increase attendances. But with the same breath the club makes it structurally impossible to achieve this goal. Work that one out! Nuts, absolutely nuts.

Other than that, I'd just like to say: What he says...

so Sundays [iare[/i better?

Penguin, this is not a DVD subscription service. It is sport. There is strong evidence that when something is freely given away (like a SEASON TICKET - all season..!!!!) it diminishes it's value. At least give it some value so that you can up-sell it - like the club are doing this year with the £20 family ticket. It also helps stem the club cash hemmorage. Honestly, Peter Deakin would be turning in his grave.

I go around the market all over the place mopping up free introductory offers and very rarely convert them into pay deals once they expire.

And yes, I have evidence that I cannot share with you. I know practically every marketer in every SL club. Give them a call if you like, their names and numbers are on club websites. It's really very logical as HKB, in his inimitable and succinct style sums up far more eloquently than I ever could (thanks!)

This aside, I'm pleased with the fact that you couldn't come back on anything else Penguin, it must mean that my logic is getting through in other areas of my post...?

Sundays are terrible.

The free junior ticket (for RL players) has been in place at an NRL level for at least 20 years, I know for a fact that it works.

AFL have a token $3 ticket (more for accounting purposes).

The thing is, when the club held a vote on the KO time, Saturday was the most popular option. It is not as if the club unilaterally decided to change it. It frustrates me that this is still a bigger issue than the seating.

Poorlytoe within your response you have spoken on behalf of-

[ievery Community Marketeer of every northern based club in the SL &
because I play in it and I speak to 100's of people in it every week[/i

You are clearly well connected.

Having watched London RL for 15 years and Warrington RL for 20+ years, having played at a decent level, reffing up until last season in the RLC/London league, plus coaching, setting up a team playing in the London league long before the RLC....... I believe I also have a general understanding of RL. I dont speak on behalf of anyone more just what I have learnt and witnessed over the years.

Have a look at the average age of a London RL fan on Sat or Sun(even Thur v the French) and tell me they are playing age. Do the same at the HJ stadium..... We are looking for supporters to turn up and watch, not players. There probably isnt a player in the Southern/ London leagues including the RLC divisions that does not know Quins RL exists. We are targeting new audiences including families. I read somewhere that up to 40% of fans are female.

The community game in the south has never been stronger. I set a team up and played in the London league 20 years ago when there were only 10 teams in the whole of the South of England. Look what there is now.

[iCan't you see that the biggest argument for building a community based RL club is based on the fact that NO other SL club plays games over the top of their community clubs fixtures. None. Nada.[/i No I cant. Go to Warrington and you will see lots of low level RL being played on a Sunday the day the town team plays.

The statements I threw back at you are statements made by the club regarding attendances and players attending. Are you suggesting they not telling the truth?

[iI don't expect a lot of sympathy for the community game on these boards[/i Who gives a flip about sympathy- This is a tough game. Did you feel sorry for Mauri when he got smacked by Bailey last week. Toughen up softy! I suspect you are a winger or as Barry Mac said during last nights commentary, muscly Touch Judges!!

Do you gel your hair!!

[iThis too might be stuck record[/i- Correct

Why don't you play 1st half saturday 2nd half sunday then you're all happy?

We dont generally come out for the second half as can be seen by plenty of our results in the recent past!!

You honestly think the RFL solely invest in the community programme to increase the numbers watching Professional RL....


and not to produce players like LMS, Cubb...........

Interesting thoughts



Are we therefore saying the majority of fans attending RL in Britain are 18-30, male, fit, not physically handicapped etc

I will look closely at the Saints fans tonight on the Sky game

This is a classic case of not being able to please everyone. Good on the community marketers in the North having a good laugh, we are a very different proposition to what they are and those in charge at our club believe Saturday 3pm is the way forward and I agree with them.

I find this little dig at the keyboard warriors voting quite amusing. So the only people that were bothered voting went for Saturday and you have a problem with this? Sounds like these people who play RL at am amateur level are desperate to come and see us. Oh, but I suppose they have no internets and only the sad acts on here vote?

I don't understand this argument about free tickets either. They don't work because they are valueless? So if I was given a free ticket for the season, I wouldn't use it? I paid £25 for a season ticket last year and £99 this year. Are you saying that a step up from free to paying for it isn't possible? Its only possible at all if we get them in the ground and people clearly weren't interested last year.

Additionally, is it also the case that everyone playing RL amateurly wants to come and actually watch it? Especially considering the often large levels of travelling involved, particularly difficult on a Sunday.

Why dont the amatuer sides play on a sunday?

Only to a few angry keyboard warriors making long posts with regards to it.

I don't care where I sit as long as I can afford it and I can see the match.

I can make enough noise on my own.

We've now created a back slapping club. Strength in numbers, feeling secure.... It doesn't strengthen you argument thats for sure

What a stupid post!

As I said on the depressed mini-bus back from Huddersfield, it's about supporting your team and the commaradery amongst your fellow supporters.

I'm just happy to be there.