Apart from the daft penalty that gave NZ field position for their third try, and making exactly the same mistake as he did last week in letting a player get on the outside of him (NZ fourth try) and not tracking across.

Griffin was poor and although I've always liked Brown he was totally out of his depth today.

Crabtree for Griffin next week and O'Loughlin to stand off.

At least these guys were TRYING to get involved. Unlike Joel Tomkins. He did absolutely nothing again. Infact Manu Vatuvei had a better game than J.Tomkins.

crabtree in for fielden more like

brown did ok today... we know hes not a kicker at the giants though which lets him down.

joel tomkins (was he on the pitch) and goulding was poor today too, nz targeted him and he wasnt upto it.

Brown gave the pass to O'Loughlin to assist in his break and also gave the pass to Widdop for his try. IMO it's more of what Macca is wanting him to do that is the issue rather than Brown's performance itself. But then, it's all too easy to look for scapegoats on the pitch, isn't it.

Sorry sweetheart but if my most active topic is on OUR board how does that equate to ME 'fishing'. I'm flattered that you care so much though!
I thought Robbo was the better of the 3 but to say 'all did there (sic) job well' is blinkered-fekkwittery the like of which would send Kieth Swiftcorn (the pish-artist formerly known as AP) apoplectic. I see you and the Wigan fans are now involved in a 'your player was crapper than our player' spat on the VT. Hilarious!

How did you rate the Leeds players?

Who's obsessed with Joel now ey! haha.

Joel didn't get on the pitch till mid-way through the 2nd half did he? Started the move for our 2nd try with quick hands and tackled anything that came near him.

Robbo had a good game when he was on, lively and always looked like he was getting the forwards and backs linked.

Griff was solid, did the hard yards and the tough work

Brown was out of the game for the first quarter, but then so was the rest of the team. Once he got involved he was looking pretty good, as has been said put O'Loughlin through a gap (who could have passed left to Robbo for a better scoring chance), Put Widdop in for his try

Fielden was garbage, got knocked back every time he took the ball up and was generally annonymous
Widdop was garbage, showed why he cant get a 1st team game
Joel Tomkins, did he play?

I think Brown and Robbo need to start in the halves, Widdop needs to be dropped and Sam Tomkins back to fullback and Crabtree to replace Fielden

Quote ="Code13" Griff was solid, did the hard yards and the tough work '" Robinson did have a good game, again. Unfortunate that his legs are about a foot long though! Griffin did hardly any tough work and didn't make any hard yards according to the stats. 5 drives for 33 metres and 17 tackles compared to Fieldens 12 drives for 85 + 25 tackles (albeit with a couple of errors). I can barely remember Griffin taking a drive in! I'd have Crabtree in but ahead of Griffin. live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match3976.html Wish they'd put the minutes up though, hard to keep track of how long everyone was on the pitch.

Quote ="Code13" Griff was solid, did the hard yards and the tough work '" Robinson did have a good game, again. Unfortunate that his legs are about a foot long though! Griffin did hardly any tough work and didn't make any hard yards according to the stats. 5 drives for 33 metres and 17 tackles compared to Fieldens 12 drives for 85 + 25 tackles (albeit with a couple of errors). I can barely remember Griffin taking a drive in! I'd have Crabtree in but ahead of Griffin. live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match3976.html Wish they'd put the minutes up though, hard to keep track of how long everyone was on the pitch.

Apart from Robinson all the other Hudds players were anonymous. Poor showing all round.

My take on the Giants players:

It looked to me like Brown's been told to play second fiddle to Tomkins. Or maybe he's lacking confidence. He didn't try to do much with the ball in hand. He was unlucky with the kick that went out on the full. He's a better player than he's showed so far though and should back himself more.

I thought Griffin was pretty poor defensively. He needs to get more aggressive. I noticed he looked at Isaac Luke in half shock when Luke started justling at the PTB. TBH, I would have had Crabtree in there for his offloads against the Kiwis.

Robinson did well, though he made the mistake of pulling the defensive line out of shape for Marshall's try in the mid/late second half. Marshall and the centre (Nightingale? sp) are class though.

With a kind video ref could have been a different game. Best team won though.

Drop Widdup and Atkins, Tomkins to fullback, Robinson to scrum half and Lunty on the Bench.

Crabtree to replace Griffin. Cudjoe on the wing and Darryl Goulding at Centre.

Would have said drop Shenton but e was much improved in the second stanza.

The idea of O'loughlin at 6 is laughable. If Farrel and sculthorpe couldn't do it then he certainly can't

Just doing to wind you up to be totally honest. I knew you wouldn't be able to resist.

Those stats you put up from the NRL website are very interesting. O'Loughlin really did put in a massive defensive effort.

lol, I got incredibly wound up. Honest.

That's why I stopped for a few hours. I wasn't busy doing other things.

Aye, the best team definitely won.

Atkins and Brown were in the same boat IMO. They hesitated and didn't assert themselves. If they play with confidence and don't cut it then fair enough. It's a shame that professionals who make their mark in SL doubt themselves in an international. That's how it looked to me anyway.

I think you're maybe being harsh on Widdup. Apart from the knock on he was pretty solid. And he was out in the centres for a quarter of the game which is not his natural position. And he doesn't know any of his team mates like the others.

Rose tinted glasses???

Widdop dropped a high ball (he should have caught) other than that was reasonable and supported well for the try.
Fielden was quiet I agree but that is a tough pack to match up to.

Griffin was largely on par with Fielden but had a decent enough game as interchange prop.
Robinson struggled in both decision making and impact and IMO is not international class.......quick over 10 yards at SL level but thats it.
Brown is and never will be an international 6.

Can see your logic in bringing Crabtree in but that will more than likely mean for Griffin.

Shame Cudjoe cant play centre as maybe he wouldnt be quite the turnstyle in defence that both ours were at times today?

Next up I'd put Widdop to centre in place of Atkins, Tomkins at FB, Eorl in the pack off the bench and move Robbo to SH to start and then depending on who is doing better sub between him and Roby.

Macca has picked a few Hudds boys. He picked us not just because of the individuals but how they played together as a group. He should let them play as they play with us; let them interact and interchange in the game as we do. Be fluid. With Tomkins at 7 it restricts the other half to play as the defending half and it doesn't work; it's not how any of them play and we end up looking predictable. Browny is doing as he is told, EOS.

I note no one has countered that Brown, for all the criticism, threw the pass for Lockers break and the last ball to Widdop when he could have been greedy and tried to score himself. He's not doing what he does with us, is he? But would NB ask him to do what he's doing?

1. Tomkins
2. Goulding (though Cudjoe could go there for me)
3. Widdop
4. Shenton
5. Briscoe
6. Brown
7. Robbo (fluid with Roby)
8. Graham
9. Roby
10. Fielden (could pick Griff but wont to be fair, Fielden did as much as Griff but concede more penalties and errors)
11. Ellis
12. Burgess
13. Lockers

14. Eorl
15. Griff (Fielden: we MUST have 4 props)
16. Westwood
17. I leave to Macca, although he will pick J Tomkins.

Just to throw in there; look at the 1,6,7,9. Pick and mix lads, pick and mix.

The English game is about the fact we mix and match, that is the strength. Sam Tomkins is a gobby sh*te but he is also a clever, talented lad and he can slip in and fill the Bodgy gap and complement Robbo, Brown and Roby. Mix and match.

You can even take Brown and swap with Lockers. This is what it needs at this level; we need to mix it up and make the opposition wonder, hesitate.

Widdop is going to be skinned alive at FB against the Aussies so young Tomkins should be there.
Atkins took a heavy knock on the thigh so I doubt we'll see him very soon.
Hall will probably come in at centre, but why not play Leroy, NB says that's his best position (who would argue with the 2009 SL Manager of the year?).
Robbos' run was never going to come off, he had worked his socks off for quite a while and I'm sure there was nothing left in the tank.
On the whole it was a far better second half and as a unit they were asking questions of the Kiwis that could not be answered. Without Benji they would have been nothing.

shenton done his ankle ligaments

cudjoe maybe to come in?? or ship somebody else over from england...

Once the tournament has started, no further players can be added.

If your pack is on the back foot getting mauled for 80% of the game, you dont need halves you need Geniuses, Sam Tomkins needs to be at full back (best in Superleague ) Atkins Oh dear, Shentons defence Oh dear, Tackling from the England pack Oh deary me,( Westwood and O'Loughlin the pick ) Browns kicking Oh dear, ( other than that was as good as anyone else) Robinson ran out of steam late on ( but was still backing up ) broke the line with no one to pass too, good as anyone, J Tompkins anonymous ( but not on long ) As a team out gunned all over the park, some poor performances, and not one outstanding one.

Some interesting posts. I like part of the last one. Every tournament we talk about having the best pack? But they never dominate. Props arent powerful enough. Halves have to have something to play behind! Browny did ok, but is not a great kicker. Robbo did well at dummy half. Best playes for me. O'Loughlin throughout. Robbo, Shenton 2nd half, Westwood - if they were all that committed, Roby 2nd half, but too blinkered, J Tompkis, big impact for short time on pitch, Graham 2nd half. Griff wasnt great like Fielden. Thought the new lads froze in the first half and then realised they werent playing supermen. Would love Frank Paul to be British. Atkins was poor in defence. And we lack a bit of power, that shows in the contact, but that can develop if you play at the top level, i.e NRL.

Can't do that, the rules don't allow once the comp has started.