Once again, obsessed with McDermott!

I have been saying I want a change for a while. The Leeds game is irrelevant.

Even when we have had injuries he's reluctant to give youth a chance.

I do not think it is time to change the coach, but I do think the coach needs to have a re-think about tactics and selection.
Our pack is huge yet we constantly go wide early, that is not catching anyone out, it is predictable and the defence is ready for us. At the risk of sounding like Stevo, we need the forwards to do the hard yards first. If we do that then the occasional early shift might just work.
Kyle Wood is easily our best partner for Danny Brough, he should be one of the first names on the spreadsheet. Ellis and Leeming are our best Booker combination. Robbie sadly is done, he gets targeted in defence and though he makes most tackles he loses so much yardage in doing so our defence is badly sretched - if you can bear to watch the Leeds game again that is what won them the game in that opening stint, Peacock, Cuthbertson st all just battering Robbo. Ellis does not get bullied like that.

did you not read my post on the previous page about the youngsters?

Like some on here l do not think this is the time for this topic, but l respect peoples opinions, we are just half way through the season, in a good position, and a lot to play for, naming names at this stage can only be counter productive, the last time l made a serious post was last year, the "5 to stay and the 5 to go" after only 2 comments the knives were out, everyone has their favourites. Now is the time for all fans to get behind the club, the coach, the team, be the 18th man and get into the top 4 and the playoffs.
Come September/October we can have these topics

Anderson, in/out
Next coach
Players, your 5 to stay 5 to go

Just as an add on, l am not convinced about the top level, "The Board", Ken seems to put everything in and takes nothing out, what about the others? l have met 4, apart from the fact that some have been around for decades, does anyone have knowledge about what they bring to the club, one is drawing a salary, so hardly likely to be putting it back into the pot, at the end of the day we have to except that Ken is happy with the situation, or is he?.
Maybe this should be another topic, Ken Davy is a nice man, but how many "nice men" are running SL clubs, just a thought.

ps before the knives start flying in my direction, l think he,s a saint and should stay forever.

Yeah. And I disagree. How many times has Connor put in mom performances and being dropped?

Mullally is not really that much of a youngster and gets very limited game time and Wardle and Mcgilvary were given their opportunity by Nathan Brown.

they still dont know connors best position. Think connor has had 1 mom performance when he played half back, maybe we should partner him with brough.

mullally has always been a long term project, getting more and more game time now

not sure which youngsters you want to see thrown in at this stage that we havent already seen. maybe roberts will be the next one we see play SL level for us

dickinson has gone to halifax on loan, part of the next phase of his progression on the path to hopefully making SL level

I would like to respond to this but I won't because it might bring out the knives you have mentioned.
I will say this though, People tend to like certain players whatever their form. We hear quotes like . He has Claret and Gold in his veins, He is a ledgend. Personally I don't care if his Heart is Claret and Gold hooped, If he is no longer good enough , He is not good enough.
Whether we have the money to get better ( as some body has pointed out ) is another story.

Very fair observations.

Going on what I hear in the stadium and what I read on here, Grix's praise is garnered by his support play and his ability to organise the defensive line. Regarding the former, I readily sing his praises, but don't take as easily as some to the assertion that his organisation is paramount to our defensive successes. Important? Yes, but we shouldn't over-egg his omelette. His ability to organise the defensive line is unquantifiable unless Grix is the only one instructing players, which is patently not true. To some it appears his organisation is not unquantifiable but unquestionable, a universal truth. However, just as the Sun does not revolve around the Earth, nor does our defence solely, in my opinion, revolve around Grix, and to suggest otherwise would do the other 12 players on the pitch a great disservice. Yes, he plays an important role in the defence, but so do the others: our tackle success rate must be comparable with any other team in the Super League considering the number of tackles we make and the points we concede. Our increasingly stoic determination to defend our own try line (see matches at Warrington, Hull, Salford etc.) has, with a few exceptions, been another key factor in ensuring we have (at the time of writing!) the best defence in the competition. Grix's line organisation is important but, in my opinion, it should be seen as a contributory factor to, rather than the reason for, our defensive successes.

An organiser and good support player. Usually solid under the high ball. And as El Diablo suggests, a likeable person and good club man. Good attributes, but like the goat and the goatherd, you cannot hide things which cannot be concealed, and these do not mask the issues which lead me to believe that if we are to move to the next level we need better.

As has been mentioned before, Grix's one-on-one defence is poor. Excluding Hull KR and Wakefield, who have both switched their fullbacks around, he is the only out and out fullback to be in his side's top ten for missed tackles. This from fullback, where he has to make fewer tackles than virtually everyone else. Yes, the fullback role is unforgiving in that most of the tackles will have to be made one-on-one, but this is a team with the best defence in the league, not a revolving door.

The team's creativity is somewhat hampered by Grix's lack of pace. If he could join the line at speed and deliver a killer pass we would have another (second?!) string to our bow, but too often he gets caught running laterally ball in hand with our attack fizzling out.

Our creativity is largely limited to Brough, which is not Grix's fault, but we need someone to share the role. As El Diablo suggested, our spine is not strong enough. 1, 6, 7, 9. Leeming is developing, but Brough is the only one who is top quality. We have a quality three quarter line and a good pack which should look even stronger next year but the spine is not quite good enough for a team challenging for the title.

This post has largely been in response to the comment about Grix, and I agree with El Diablo. I think we need better at fullback. However, I would not wish to single Grix out. I also think we need better at halfback to complement Brough and maybe a better hooker (as long as it doesn't impede Leeming's progress). Clearly we won't be able to get all of these, but I think that some improvement in the spine of the team is required if we are to be true contenders. In my opinion our lack of creativity is holding us back. We have a good side, but like Tantalus the fruit is just out of our reach.

Good post

Blooding youngsters is a 2/3 season process. Anderson brings them in when needed.
I have no problems with Anderson, he did his apprenticeship with N.Brown and our record over the past 4 or 5 years has been very good, finishing in the top 5 every year, and being the top team in Yorkshire for a good number of years up until this season which is not done yet. Consistency is our main aim surely, not just winning pots, which will eventually come.

Totally agree.... It's took us 40 years to get where we are now let's not get too big for our boots and start expecting !!!
Let's get everything in place behind the scenes for a successful future then we can take the next step.

Why is it a 2/3 season process?

It's not for Wigan or saints or Leeds.

Connor has been around the 1st team for 3 seasons now.

Whatever happened to "if you're good enough, you're old enough"

Like I said I am not demanding his head on a stick. If he is still here next season (which he will be) then fine,"then fine. However I would prefer a fresh approach.

Of course it is for wigan saints and Leeds. How long has singleton been about- yet he still gets dropped. keinhurst has played the odd game for a couple of seasons but not had a regular spot, swift was in and out of the team, lomax was all over the place, makinson was in and out of the team- remember we have taken hughes on loan for a season, he wasn't getting a regular spot at wigan. I think it's perception again.

Keinhorst isn't getting game time simply because he's not good enough. What about strive ward and Liam sutcliffe?

Makinson and lomax have over 120 appearances each and are only 23 and 24 respectively.

Wigan have played malfredi before charnley this year who only got his place back because of injury.

Bateman was a regular at Bradford as a teenager. I could go on forever.

I've called for Andersons head a few times in recent past, however Thursday night brought new hope for him in my opinion. It was an perfect performance, well not at all, however he got the job done. Unlike some on this thread I am a strong believer in how much a coach impacts a team therefore when something goes right he deserves as much praise as he does criticism when it goes wrong. Thursday could have easily been a disaster with the hangover from a horrendous performance at Leeds, but no. Baloo got his players ready to go and they were able to move past it. hes not the best in the league but to me thats a sign of a good coach!

Also people on this thread are talking like the seasons already done say things like 'we don't need to win something every year' and 'we are building for the future. I'm sorry but last time I checked we were sitting in 4th place breathing down the necks of Wigan. If we win our next two games we WILL be 3rd! I see no reason why the 2015 Giants can't get to Old Trafford and win the Grand Final. For 3/4 years now we have had a team good enough to beat anyone, we just need belief!

I've called for Andersons head a few times in recent past, however Thursday night brought new hope for him in my opinion. It wasn't an perfect performance, well not at all, however he got the job done. Unlike some on this thread I am a strong believer in how much a coach impacts a team therefore when he something goes right he deserves as much praise as he does criticism when it goes wrong. Thursday could have easily been a disaster with the hangover from a horrendous performance at Leeds, but no. Baloo got his players ready to go and they were able to move past it. Hes not the best in the league but to me thats a sign of a good coach!

Also people on this thread are talking like the seasons already done say things like 'we don't need to win something every year' and 'we are building for the future'. I'm sorry but last time I checked we were sitting in 4th place breathing down the necks of Wigan. If we win our next two games we WILL be 3rd! I see no reason why the 2015 Giants can't get to Old Trafford and win the Grand Final. For 3/4 years now we have had a team good enough to beat anyone, we just need belief!

Nicely said. I am in the 'we don't have to win something every year' group because there isn't a team that should now expect silverware every year.

I'm also in the 'we are building for the future' group because we are. Our youth still has tons to learn. Our coach has lots to learn and as a team we have lots to learn.

But yes.. We can win something this season. People will say we can't because we fail in big games. Well everyone fails in big games till they win one.
We might not win something and I'll be disappointed and we try again next year with Anderson and continue building.

Good post. We have been building for the future ever since I started watching in 1990 but when you ask when does the building stop, or at least when does the winning something big start, You immediately get the ,Well Wigan have more money, Saints have more youngsters, Leeds have this or that, Its all endless excuses and defence of the club.

We know these clubs have more of everything than we do, but it doesn't stop us from beating them, there isn't a team in the league that we haven't beat, so we have showed that on our day we can match any of them, They only have 13 men on the field same as us. Yes they will have better men in some positions but we will have better men in others.

They need to believe in themselves and they need to do it week in week out. That is the coaches job, in fact for me it's his main job, You can train and practice set moves till Hell freezes over but if you don't believe you can win It will all be wasted more often than not.

Every year since Super league started the same teams have won the Grand final, Warrington have made big strides and given it a good go "10 years ago they were where we have been for the last 5years " They got a new stadium just like us, they got a rich owner just like us, Tony Smith went there and made them believe in themselves, "Just like he did at Leeds " They got on a roll and they are now a very good club.

We can do the same, we are in a great position in the league so we must have been doing some things right " Defending " What we can't have is shows like we had against Leeds and others, We have far too many of them and have had all last season and this.

It's so easy to say things like Look where we were 30 years ago, What that has to do with anything I don't know, I Listen to my Uncle talk about the Fifties, Cooper , Devery, Valentine etc, and he says Saints, Wigan, Leeds ect had more of everything back then just like now, but we used to beat them regularly and win Cups. Great but I want to see it.

A great example of good coaching was a few seasons ago. Wakefield were nailed on for the drop with I think it was 4 games to play, they brought in John Kear to do what looked like an impossible task, They won every game and stayed up.

I don't particularly want to see PA gone , I want to see a fully motivated and fired up Giants who believe they can win the G Final " which they can " If he is the man to do that , Then great.

Wardle has played 107 games and is 23
Mcgillivary, Cudjoe and Lawrence have played over 500 games between them.
Mullally has played 38 games for us and is only 23.

Connor has now played 17 games, Johnson 15 and Lemming 7.

So the evidence is that we do give youngsters an opportunity and if they are good enough they stay in the side.

Wardle, Mcgilvary and cudjoe (the 2 latter haven't been youngsters for a while) were all brought through by previous coaches, not Paul Anderson.

Jake Connor is in his 3rd season as a pro. He made his debut the same season as Liam sutcliffe who has 55 appearances under his belt for leeds despite only being 20.

Leeming made his debut last year and only has 7!

Mullally has 30 odd games of 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there.

Mullally and Wardle had played a handful of super league games before joining us.

How many times has Connor got mom to be dropped the next game for Grix or Robinson?

Stop kidding yourself, we simply don't give our own youth a chance anymore.

That's down to the man who picks the team, he would rather play somebody with a reputation or get other teams players fit for them!

Great example - brad Dwyer. I'll stop there.

Which youngsters should be getting more game time. I am not aware of any?
You mention Sutcliffe at Leeds has he not been dropped the last two games for Sinfield. Do you not think the same will happen to Handley when Briscoe is fit.

But he will be ready to be half back at Leeds for the next decade as he will have over 60 appearances by the beginning of next season. (As well as his challenge cup winners medal he won when he was 19)

My main two are Connor and Leeming.

Connor is only getting game time to cover for injuries. he should be playing every week.

Leeming is in and out of the team, despite being our best hooker.

We should now pick Johnson, Dickinson or Learmonth before Mullally for the rest of the season.

The coaches obviously know a lot more about our youngsters than me, but don't try and tell me Connor doesn't deserve a shot at full back. He never did anything to lose his spot. Grix just got fit.

What Rot. Connor is a better centre than fullback- it's where he played for England. And in order for him to keep his centre place Wardle was shifted to second row!!!! Taai /bruno could have covered for ferres. They Certainly do know more about our youngsters- Leeming spent a lot of last season injured!!!!
As an aside did you see how well Dwyer played last week?

Yeah last week!!!

He was garbage when he was with us.

Personally I think he was better at FB than centre.

Don't make out we moved Wardle to accommodate Connor either.

Let's see if Wardle goes back to the pack when cudjoe is fit.

Can I just throw something open for discussion. Jake Connor, whilst I like his tenacity and competitive spirit, he really does not have the pace or acceleration to be a realistic long term centre in super league. He is a skilful kid with bags of passion, don't be surprised to see him end up in the back row.

Loads of time for him to develop. He's improving all the time.