It has been coming for weeks, the dressing room cannot be a happy place to be new recruits on 3, 4 or even 5 times the salary of those who have sweated blood for the club in the early part of the season.
We were out thought, out enthused, out run, out of our depth and subsequently out of the competition.
In the last few weeks I have become a little suspect of John Duffy's coaching ability, early day's it was easy nobody was in expectation of anything all he had to say and do was get out there lads and give it your all, having done that and got into a position whereas he has to guide the team, come up with strategies and gameplay to press claim with the better teams his tactics and selections have been somewhat wanting, and his man management must also come into question as per my opening paragraph.
We need a coach in my opinion who has no history or connection at all with the club, indeed our last four Rowley, Jukes, Purtill and now Duffy have all sat in the dressing donning their kit, and I never have thought they have got out of being one of the boy's, I think it is time to ditch that approach and employ someone who will be a disciplinarian where the playing side of the club his is domain, and no other influences can interfere, if we are to take a lot of this team on into 2020 then we most definitely need a new coach, more of the same is simply not good enough.

Can’t fault anything you have said. Brown and Woods supposedly a super league half back combination totally outplayed. What has Woods done all season? No creativity, and a kicking game that just consists of boring up and understand easily diffused, with no short kick offs until the match is lost.

Surprised calls for the coach, surely you need to look elsewhere as this is a systemic problem that has happened with all of the coaches you mention. Surely it's time to question the more to the front the owner came the weaker the team became..

No. Deja Vu on so many levels from Beaumont dumping an influx of has-beens onto an inexperienced coach who can't make his mind up what to do with them all. Sound familiar? And wasn't the game reminiscent of the Widnes game, completely outcoached in relation to the conditions? Perfectly executed game plan by Ryan Carr and his troops.

Time for a larger investment on a better coach instead of scrimping on the most important member of the team!

Maybe Purtill would have done a much better job this year.

I think we may be over-complicating this. Because of Saints' success, they took back their D/R's, to bolster their play-off squad. Those young D/R's fitted in perfectly (much to my surprise) with the ethos of togetherness that was in our squad, from the word go. Consequently, we had to get new players from somewhere, to make up our numbers. As it happened, very few of those additions were able to contribute to the cause, for whatever reason.

Look at Fev last night. Their D/R arrangement with Leeds, meant that they could retain their D/R's as Leeds were never going to be anywhere near the play-offs. In their squad last night, they had from Leeds, Golding; (outstanding player) Sutcliffe; (2 tries) McClelland (kicked us to death, and even had a better game than Chisholm) and Albert. (an international prop)

Our 'circumstances' at the beginning of the season, were always likely to come back and bite us, when the inevitable injuries, and non-availability of D/R's kicked in. I guess the big disappointment was that the newcomers didn't have the time/ability to fit in. The other disappointment for me, was that some of those newcomers replaced key players who had got us into the top four, and who weren't, apparently, injured.

Surely this season would have been better served consolidating our position and giving Duffy time to grow as a coach?

When there was a sniff of SL and the money offered, our owner started "putting his hand in his pocket" (and as you say) - Overpaying for overpriced, over the hill players who came in and destroyed all sense of togetherness built over the first 3months.

I would have far more seen how the young and local lads did when given the full season, yes the D/R hurt us but the route we took was just the same old cycle of e which put us on the brink. We never ever learn.. No Cunningham to blame so the knives come out for Duffy - Considering he got us to top 4 with a part time squad he can't be that bad, maybe a growing influence from outside started to derail the team he built?

Just an opinion. No. Like Jukes before, if and when Leigh get to SL, Duffy has no experience and so the inevitable overwhelm will manifest and the decisions become weird! Derek obviously has the cash and the desire, so why not just get the right coach in now and get the job done sooner rather than later. Seems he's hell-bent on frivolously spending money on players and lots of them, but not on the main man.

I personally believe Purtill would have been a better option this year, due to the SL experience, albeit as an assistant coach.

But we were it has to be said over reliant on the quality of the St.Helens young DRs in the early to mid part of the season. Despite the raw passion of the local boys, Their quality was a big contributor that propelled us up the table. No question about that

What is unquestioned is that Saints started to recall those players constantly often as late as Saturday afternoon prior to a match day. The offer of DRs from Saints were being withdrawn and their availability reached zero and that presented us as a club with a huge dillema.

Do we enter the market for our own players or do we finish the season struggling to field a full contingent of 13 players and 4 subs for most of the remainder season, as it was a real probability ?

Now you can and I have myself question the quality of the players recruited but the decision was to sign players to remain ultra competitive to continue the promising start to the season the Saints youngsters contributed massively to. However real quality players are not readily available mid season for obvious reasons.

I am also aware that you have aired historical issues with Derek over a long period of time but as for 'outside influences'. I don't think so I really do not. My understanding is Derek was as bewildered at recent team selections as the rest of us, amidst rumours of petty fall outs between the coaching staff and one or two players that has been to the detriment of the team performance in recent weeks.

On top of that I honestly think John has also been out foxed tactically on the pitch in recent weeks and that is a very dangerous trait, long term.

I fully agree with all you say there Harold.



As for John being outfoxed, you could be right. Yet, have you noticed how many times lately, we have had a poor first 40 minutes, then remedied it in the first 10 minutes of the second half? (only to fall away again!) At half time I forecast we would get back to 12-14 (we actually only managed to get to 10) and then fall away again. One other factor I would mention, is that a few of our players who were outstanding for the first two thirds of the season, fell away at the back end. They looked jaded, which is probably to be expected. I won't mention names, because that's not fair, but you probably know who I mean?

jaded....we had two injured one of whom has hardly played in months was still plainly carrying the injury he went out of the team with in the first place that surely should have been sorted when we had the chance, one with so much strapping he could hardly run,both tried hard, one who has hardly played in 3 years not for injury but with an admitted lack of enthusiasm for the game. he managed to maintain that yesterday

In answer to the OP ? , No

I do believe though that following to rigidly to the NRL RL handbook of 5 drives and a kick , with little inovation just isn't enough to achieve success

But overall an enjoyable season , we've finished just about where we belong I suppose , we know get to see what unfolds in the next few weeks without having our nerves shredded

Very good post Harold ! I too feel Duffy has been out coached , regularly! I’m at a loss to understand why Ridyard and particularly Mcnally are not playing? At the end of the match McNally had his arm round Duffys shoulder on the pitch, didn’t look like two guys at loggerheads!

There are some great players out there available without spending fortunes, bringing in Sau & Brown for example just upsets the camp when most of the players are being told the club has no money when re-negotiating their contracts.

Bennion & Butt at Swinton for example are decent players and won’t cost fortunes, Liam Forsyth is the best centre at the club and can’t get a game? McNally makes us tick and Ridyard creates space. Most teams play themselves into some form, we seem to dump names in like fantasy football expecting results.

Agree with this. I am also not convinced that going hybrid next season is the answer to try and gain promotion. Nevertheless, I enjoy my Sunday afternoon's on game day,so I will purchase my ST just the same.

Me too Cokey. I was disappointed at the ending of the season, at some of the players we brought in, and the apparent treatment, (I say 'apparent', because I don't know what was going on) of one or two of our better players. That said, we've had some cracking games at LSV this past season, that were well worth the admission money.

I also worry if we are about to repeat our 2018 mistakes, in 2020 - there is talk of signing a SL player who his SL club can't afford,

for instance - but will still be at the front of the queue for our three season tickets!

That's the way I feel, Binosh. Brown, for instance, is a class player, but hadn't played for a year. It's asking a lot for your 'play maker' to slot into the team and make things tick, in the final four games or so - especially when you have a proven 'play maker' who has been doing that, all season. I'm afraid that was one signing that just didn't work.

No to what precisely Gubby? That John Duffy is in your opinion the man to take us forward, I believe he didn't have to coach the team very much in the early season, as I said it was a team cobbled together along with some relatively unknown Saints kids, his message purely and simply was get out there and do the best you possibly can, fast forward to the last 3rd of the season and his man management, strategy and coaching skills have to be relied and counted on and to me the evidence of the teams performances did not display anything positve coming from him plus some of his selections had the majority of those in attendance scratching their heads.

As I stated our recent history of the coaches that have been employed seems like a collection of jobs for the boy's, the club is to familiar to them, we need in my opinion to bring someone in who is a disciplinarian with no previous connection, with experience, not someone who is doing a personal "on the job training scheme" learning as he goes along, management in sport or in buisness is a black art and those who move in their career get a better all round understanding.
A guy who I served my time with in the engineering industry gave me some great advice when I was his apprentice, he told me that starting as an apprentice at the firm, you will always be looked upon as that apprentice as long as you stay there, you need to get out in the wide world and gain expierience and respect, what I am alluding to is the last 4 coaches we have employed are still that apprentice, we need the journeyman who has been there and done that, someone who has earned that respect and experience and not afraid to use it.
Derek should have learned by now that his type of coaching selection is not producing the results his other generous investments in the team warrents, if he goes down the same path again, expect nothing but the same rudderless guidence.

We have not been the same team for weeks,i.e team spirit gone through the window since the arrival of the Toronto lot and Sau.How Riddy and McNally cant get a game is beyond belief.Riddy should be on the team for his kicking alone,as proved yesterday.

Disruption in camp that is obvious. Probably more to follow.

From a totally no biased point of view I thought Leigh looked the better team, however the individual errors cost you. If you hadn't made these i think you win the game. Tactically there didn't seem much wrong but the execution was poor Kevin Brown was aweful and I'm sure whoever brought him in expected a great deal more.

oh here we come with sack the coach