I have never been so disinterested in Rugby League in all my life. 50 years of watching this great game and I couldn't care less about it anymore. I will be at the Leigh v Fax game but it doesn't matter if we win or lose because you can't get promoted. I haven't watched a game since we got stuffed at Batley and I really haven't missed it. I couldn't care less who wins the CC or any GF. I hate SL (womens football or darts or Rugby League???) and SKY. I just see a dying game and a bunch of bent management running the game. Any good talent will go to Oz or Union because this game is dead due to franchising and expansionism

SL: London v Salford Att:1500 CH1: Workington v Barrow Att: 1700 I rest my case. RIP Rugby League. Crying shame what the buffoons have done to our once great game.

I could'nt agree more the clowns at red hall have killed a sport like ours and now in my eyes its not even a sport its a mockery of sport.Can you imagine the SFA looking at our sport and the bulls situation they would have a right laff.

It's so sad because it was a brilliant sport. The game is so divided now. Do you think any team in the Championship in financial difficulties would be helped like Bratfort Northern have been? It's so corrupt and so divided and there is nothing to play for anymore. Every game is just a friendly. Let's face it Northampton and Gloucester amateur RL teams have more chance of being promoted than Leigh, Fax or Fev. Unless drastic changes in the people and the mindset of the people running this game are changed it will be dead in most of the heartlands in the next 5 years. There's so much more to do in summer that you don't miss it when you stop watching it and in winter most people watch football anyway.

Us yourself an fax have no chance of SL the big wigs would'nt allow it.Also on your gloucester and northampton comment why do you think the RFL have allowed them to join our leagues? Its because thats what they have in mind in the near future.

Well said........my thoughts exactly.

Absolutely spot on,remember years ago the excitement would be building,now its should I go and whats the point

I spent years as a Leigh season ticket holder and never missed a game home and away. I honestly couldn't care less anymore. I have been to 1 game this season, Sheffield away and I only went to that because I live in Sheffield AND got free tickets. I don't watch on TV anymore. I cancelled my Sky Sports last year.
The "sport" is a joke and is on the verge of extinction.

I go because I enjoy the game ,you can't beat a live game of rugby and I still get satisfaction from a Leigh win regardless of the fact that we are going nowhere but do agree that our great sport is being killed off

I have been this year to the fewest games in a season for over twenty years. I got asked today what day is the next game played? Once you get out of the habit it is going to be hard to change. THe game needs P&R otherwise its just a series of frendlies.

I agree that the Game is in a perilous situation - despite the RFL spin on increased attendances and extra TV viewers, in SL. The same RFL people would also probably admit there are only a (small) handful of clubs, who are surviving, financially.

There seems to be a mood of change developing within the Game - hopefully to a return to P&R and helping the 'traditional' clubs to formulate a way to survive off their own efforts.

My take is that I'd rather be in there helping, in however small a way, my club to survive, build and then flourish.

It needn't be all doom and gloom.

On 19th August 2007 we had P&R, and strangely we had just over a 1000 on.
Did those missing hundreds have another reason for not going? Because the trend of this thread is we would have delayed KO's if we went back to the system that had the bumper crowds week in week out. Or if we didn't volunteer to be "feeder club" with Salford - we don't have to take DC players, but we choose to do so like most of the other clubs otherwise we are weaker against the other clubs and fans would then not turn up for excuse #99.
All clubs together should refuse DC's, but they won't because sadly each club looks out for themselves

When they first announced dual reg players, I said it was a slippery slope to becoming a feeder club and although we have got to watch some good players, especially from Warrington, I would much rather have not had this system introduced in the first place.
Here we are just a few years later and the day 6 dual reg players turn out for a national league team is the day they officially become a feeder club.

Do you genuinely think the RFL don't think the game is struggling behind closed doors?

So they come up with the idea of scrapping the U20s to save the SL clubs money. I height SLEEP clubs were supposed to be developing the next generation of players because thats what licensing was supposed to allow.

Unless i hear more encouraging things about our pathetic laughing stock of a game 2012 is my last season.

I actually think P&r does bring in the support -
In 1992 Leigh played in a 8 team competition (devised by Gary Hetherington - then of Sheffield Eagles).
We had Oldham / Leigh / Sheffield / Workington / Rochdale / Ryedale-York / Carlisle / London Crusaders so not much scope for big derby fixtures.

For me it worked as when we played Rochdale Hornets on 05th April 92 (so a month or so to go before the season ended - a month that would see gates rise as 1st past the post was the winner of the comp - as it should be now) we had these averages posted in the programme in a 8 team league.........
Oldham 3,123 (3rd in the league)
Leigh 3,015 (1st in the league)
Sheffield 2,389 (2nd in the league)
Workington 2,083 (7th in the league)
Ryedale-York 1,214 (8th in the league)
Carlisle 845 (6th in the league)
London 669 (4th in the league).

If we remember that this was in a period of it being rare to find many full time players/coaches and certainly the full time club representives at best would be a secretary (compared to the on field and off field teams in employment at each SL club and a fair few championship clubs now) one does wonder what happened that made all these clubs become so unnattractive to the people in the towns and cities they came from.

Personally I'd bring back Promotion and Relegation starting next season and scrap the play offs , I've no problem with a end of season cup competiton (as that whats the play offs really are in RL) so lets have a premeiership trophy day as before as it didn't detract from the vital week to week RL being played.
We need fans to feel like every single game matters - I'm not sure many fans in all divisions feel thats the case and for a sport thats still a minority one I'm not sure it carry on alienating those that turn up week in week out.

What I wrote was "=#FF0000The same RFL people would also probably admit there are only a (small) handful of clubs, who are surviving, financially"

That means that I believe the RFL know the vast majority of clubs ARE struggling financially.

They are all in debt alan just some have alot bigger debts than others.

I'm not arguing with that mate. I'm just clarifying something that 'Leigh Leigh' seems to have misunderstood.

OK misread that. Thought that didn't seem right


But I still don't see your point about in public the RFL "spin", but they do know the game is struggling. You always use "spin" with press releases when you are selling the game. That is something on here I never can understand from some posters.

Ok mate sorry but the RFL need all our clubs outside the holy grail league to say

And form our own league with tv rights because im sure if it was run properly it would be more successful than SL as our league is by far more competitive and to the neutral looking in it would make more entertaining tv IMO.

Remember when you would feel 'nervous' just before before a match...unless it's a challenge cup game, thanks to the RFL, that has now gone. Each fan feels differently I know, but it can be 'dressed up' all you like, but ticking a box guarantees beggar all. EVERY game is a friendly, my mindset is used to it now though, no nervousness/excitement/disappointment...do the RFL care, do they **** ?

I remember all the outrage of fans with petitions, backed up by the media about the mergers in 1995. i myself was annoyed by it at the time. But all them people that won the day didn't turn up when their clubs needed them afterwards. Now that is the impression I get even if P&R came back. The same loyal fans would still be going and IF we got to the play off final for the holy grail they would come out of the woodwork. But who finances the clubs continuing cycle of chasing promotion when the fans only turn up for the big one, or maybe the odd derby?
The game needs a lot of better ideas than bring P&R back and dilute the money from SL clubs by sharing it with clubs that aren't in SL.

Can anyone answer the question about 19th August 2007, when just over a 1000 turned up when we was chasing promotion to SL? That must have been a big hole to fill financially for Arthur when he was subsidizing our ambitions.
.

We're not daft, yes it would take time, but we have a small fan base. First game back in the top flight, v Huddersfield in SL 2005, just over 4000 speccys. But surely clubs attendances 'would' improve with promotion/relegation...it has to !
My 1st ever game v Hull in 1975, we won 6-0...attendance 450 !
I do not have my 'rose tinted specs' on, but I take your point.

I don't know the exact date but I do remember just before we went up and when in SL (and coming down again) how the club seemed to hit a rut on & off the park.
Even as good as it was going up THAT night v Whitehaven I get the feeling it wasn't as good as the feeling we would have had if we had gone up from THAT Semi final defeat v Widnes in the year we was just about stand out on & off the park with a young Turley mixing it with some outstanding old pro's (and yet in our Promotion year we won the lot !).
I'd say for 3 years after SL people fell out of favour with the club (for umpteen reasons), certainly as someone who had been to most games until this season the win over Hull KR in the NRC Final was great but was flat - fans familiar with success at a lower level perhaps gutted we had royally blown out chance in SL by being so inept on & off the park (although Wigan council certainly hindered the off the park stuff) didn't go and I felt it was like the diehards of the years when such teams as South Wales (in Cardiff) had beat us was the ones following the club again.

I actually think Millward returning was a big turn in events for Leigh and the feel good factor started to come back - as did the crowds but by now the game had lost a lot of support as Leigh (like many others in RL area) became 'TV Football' towns, football is the king in North West England and when Wigan are booted off the ground for Wigan Athletic you know RL isn't at the top of its game.
However as mentioned Millward got RL played like we hadn't seen since perhaps Terzis left and the club started to interact with its support base again - the NRC win v Halifax was absolutley fantastic - 100% better than the win v Hull KR (Although not as good as the first win we had v Keighley - thats when everyone started to believe Leigh had turned the corner and was on our way back).

Now though its is hard to get too worked up over a match, each Monday I go out for a pint with a Salford fan - we are both probably people who have spent far too much money watching RL at club and country across the world - we are now both probably more interetsted in what our football club does as we can see a clear pathway for success driven by what makes us go to the game in the first place - to enjoy watching what the players do on the field and the raw passion and emotion it generates.
He is frustrated with Salford for the fact he feels the players can be perhaps going through the motions (he is certain a lead at London recently would not have been thrown away if the players thought defeat put them in a relegation dogfight) his views are shared by people such as Sam Tomkins who also believes in SL many players at the bootom end clubs are 'on holiday' before the season ends.
Me , well I see Leigh as just in a pre season event except it lasts all year until the Play offs begin (this year the CC run was a breath of fresh air though), I like the matches when I'm there and still enjoy it but I'm now in the bracket of forcing myself to go and that bit of excitment that a result can 'really' meant something can be missing.
He thinks Salford would benefit from a spell in the Championship to 'get back to basics and be given a kick up the backside', I feel Leigh would benefit being in a league that could deliver a step up to the team that was the best each season.

In contrast we go to the football and lament about how 'I wish RL had this again' as we see the club slowly build its way through the footballing pyramid with just the usual ground improvements required to make the step up as a 'barrier' to promotion.
Of course there is investment - but I'd say all bar a handful of sports clubs in Europe are run out of passion by people who know the investment will never see a return.

Everyones opinions are different and many believe RL has more skilful players, more younger players who are good enough to be in SL and the gates are up.
I've nothing against that opinion as people are entitiled to it.
However I often ponder can the game afford to keep losing fans at the smaller clubs as eventually people will look around and wonder where did everyone go.

I remember saying when Celtic Crusaders went to SL in Bridgend via a franchise that I didn't see it as expanding in the true sense, we are just moving fans around.
For the extra 1,000 fans we gained in Bridgend we had lost a 1,000 in Whitehaven - the trick to expansion is maintaining what you have making it far better and moving into new areas with a product and enthusiasm that people will think ' I want to be part of that'.
I look at how excited I should be about the new clubs joining the RL 'family' next season (and I'm pleased to see them - all are most welcome additions) but I do feel it tinged with the reality that the RL family they join is one going through a bitter divorce and that many will view them as clubs that will recieve a unfair amount of help - probably totally untrue but a cloak and dagger governing body won't help the perception that the game is run as 'one rule for one, another rule for another'.
One hopes the new clubs don't suffer a 'Celtic' syndrome as undoubtedly the RFL's hamfisted approach to that club coupled with the biase shown from day one bought Celtic Crusaders more enemys than friends which was a great shame.

The irony, I don't know who we played on 19th August 2007 or the official gate, I do know though that if things pan out and Leigh ends up a feeder league that gate in 2007 will be looked back as a good one - and that is surely bad for Leigh and bad for RL.

Awesome, awesome post Jenky, spot on with every word.

(I will also note that we most certainly weren't on the brink of promotion in 2007, and personally I thought that season was worse than even the 'relegation' season of 2009!)