Make your own mind up with these two but I wouldn't let the ref anywhere near a rugby field. www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw60Sq-i0qg www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSHUwGwYpQ8

Make your own mind up with these two but I wouldn't let the ref anywhere near a rugby field. www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw60Sq-i0qg www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSHUwGwYpQ8

the first link is a real nasty hit ! from a winger too

the second hit aint no were near as malicious ........who was the ref?

in the refs defence the number 16 may have blocked his view, were was the linesman?

Hes a Golborne lad called Scott Mikalauskas, reffed east u18 early in season and didnt do to bad.Watched him ref Wigan u16 v Whitehaven and he was awful.

was he biased towards wigan because i happen to know he is a wigan fan

No if anything the other way

both hits deserved to be penalised, 1st one with a red card. 2nd one just a penalty.
oh well thems the breaks

The point is that the 2nd video shows the last minute of the game with the scores at 24-25 to stanningley. They then concede a penalty for not binding at the scrum (which is ridiculously harsh as he never warned him that he wasn't binding properly).

Not binding properly in the scrum is a DIFFERENTIAL penalty and so west cumbria should NOT be able to kick for goal. The referee clearly didn't know the rules and allowed them to take it in the last second of the game. In a final this must have been heart breaking for the lads who have basically been robbed by an incompetant referee.

How do you know he hadn't warned them beforehand?

On the video I didn't see him give the signal for a differential penalty.

Are all infringements from a scrum not differential penalties

No, some are full penalties which you can kick for goal from.

Thats the point

Why whould he signal for one when he didn't GIVE a differential penalty!! He should have because not binding at the scrum should result in a differential penalty.

The referee dropped an almighty clanger which altered the result of the game, he even had the arrogance to ignore the advice of the fourth official, he hadn't got the bottle to admit his mistake when he knew that he was totally responsible for the result of the game. That, on top of his handling of the elbow tackle shows he is not fit for purpose and should be sacked before he does any more damage to the game.

Clarification:-

[i1. In respect of misconduct at the scrum other than foul play or
the use of offensive or obscene language a Referee shall
award a differential penalty which differs only from a penalty
kick in that a goal cannot be scored from it. The differential
penalty applies to all players, even those outside the scrum,
who should be penalised where they offend. A full penalty is
awarded for an offence which occurs before the scrum is
properly formed.[/i

The first was a shocker but the second seemed to have malicious intent - the blond centre seemed to hit him high on purpose and it's only the fact that he's obviously a bit soft that meant he didn't rip his head off?!

As for the penalty at the scrum, it didn't even look like a penalty-worthy offence. The error he made in allowing the kick at goal was a disgrace but ignoring the fourth official who tried to correct his error (assuming that's what he was doing) should mean the bloke loses his whistle permanently.

Thats all fine and dandy , dandy and fine ( my bestest Stan and Olly ) but watching what happened on that video I've no sympathy for STANingly s loose forward , who'd give a lazy penalty away under the sticks for bollox like that when your in front and got the ball with a minute left ( the tit )

Quote ="Leyther_till_death"How do you know he hadn't warned them beforehand?'" Read this has comments from players of both teams who confirm no warning was given. www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=202274

Quote ="Leyther_till_death"How do you know he hadn't warned them beforehand?'" Read this has comments from players of both teams who confirm no warning was given. www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=202274

Quote ="reffy"Make your own mind up with these two but I wouldn't let the ref anywhere near a rugby field. www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw60Sq-i0qg www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSHUwGwYpQ8'" Wasn't Jason Donohue banned sine die for a tackle like that?

Quote ="reffy"Make your own mind up with these two but I wouldn't let the ref anywhere near a rugby field. www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw60Sq-i0qg www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSHUwGwYpQ8'" Wasn't Jason Donohue banned sine die for a tackle like that?

Actually it's open to interpretation as until the scrum is properly formed then a full penalty can be given. If the lad had not binded correctly then a full scrum was [uNOT[/u properly formed.

You can see this in rule:



Therefore he didn't drop a clanger as it's to do with interpretation. Plus the fourth official has no say on the running of the game.

Quote ="rob_a"Read this has comments from players of both teams who confirm no warning was given. www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=202274'" So what? it's the ref's job to give decisions, not coach teams through it. The Stanningley lad doesn't bind, it's a correct penalty call. It should indeed be a differential pen, unless someone's said something, in which case all the ref's done is not give a second signal. But even if the ref's got it wrong, it happens. Given West Cumbria scored 23 other points, I'm assuming some of the Stanningley lads made errors during the match. Having a pop at a volunteer ref in an amateur game on t'interweb doesn't help anyone.

Quote ="rob_a"Read this has comments from players of both teams who confirm no warning was given. www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=202274'" So what? it's the ref's job to give decisions, not coach teams through it. The Stanningley lad doesn't bind, it's a correct penalty call. It should indeed be a differential pen, unless someone's said something, in which case all the ref's done is not give a second signal. But even if the ref's got it wrong, it happens. Given West Cumbria scored 23 other points, I'm assuming some of the Stanningley lads made errors during the match. Having a pop at a volunteer ref in an amateur game on t'interweb doesn't help anyone.

Joe I'm a volunteer ref myself. I wasn't having a pop was just pointing out comments made by players involved in the game

The penalty was awarded for having more than 7 backs - hence it is a full penalty (the scrum was never formed correctly and therefore a differential penalty would be incorrect). The players had been warned on several occassions.

Whats your opinion of the first incident Mr Cobb

Joe, is he one of your proteges? You have tried to excuse one part of his actions by giving a totally nonsensical reason. There were not seven backs the loose forward had his hands on the second row, the referees signalled "not binding" and made no reference to the number in the scrum. He got the offence correct but the penalty wrong.

If you want to retain any credibility as a development officer then take your head out of your backside and admit that he cocked up and while you are doing so explain his decision not to shift the thug.

If that's directed at me for quoting you, Rob... fair comment, wasn't meaning you, but was meaning the more general comments including using Youtube to have a go at an official.

Refs (a) interpret what they see, which is always at full speed, from one angle... hence what we can rewind over and over again and see as an elbow shot, in real time looks like a collision resulting in contact to the head... a penalty, definitely... but the ref is running sideways towards the touchline, there are four advancing defenders but the hit comes from the touchline, infield, on the 'wrong' side of the defensive line. Could the ref definitely see in that one chance that it was such a bad shot? Certain enough to straight red someone in a final? From the decision, clearly not.

Refs also (b) give the best decision they can on the basis of what they've seen. In the second clip, maybe he could have picked the (missing) high tackle on the fullback, but that would have been a real judgement call, and a scrum to Stanningley was a nailed-on certainty, so that's not a surprising call. Besides, it looks like the ref had already made the call for teh knock on, so it's a scrum anyway because the tackle comes when the game is halted. The Stanningley loose isn't bound, and is clearly guilty of a penalty office.

Refs also (c) sometimes get it wrong. My understanding of the laws is that it should have been a differential penalty. JoeCobb's argument, that the scrum wasn't properly formed, is arguable but not how I understand it. I don't know if the Staningley player questioned the ref's parentage when he got pinged, in which case its a full penalty, and the ref's only mistake is not to signal that. Certainly the loose and scrum half say something, and the Stanningley 14 has words. In any case, the ref's penalty signal, albeit 'not binding', is ALSO not the arm-waving signal for a differential penalty.

But even if the ref IS wrong, it happens, and it happens a lot less than player error. Last weekend we were six points up with 3 minutes left, and my centre got 'drop-goal' on the brain... tried one on the first tackle, gave the opposition a 20 metre restart, almost cost us the win. But it's not all over the internet saying he's a muppet and should be banned by the RFL. Why? because it was a lad, making a genuine error of judgement. If all his team-mates called him a c*** and we post stuff online to that effect, he'd probably not come back next week.

Likewise, the ref is just a lad, making his judgement calls. If my centre doesn't come back next week, We'll shift someone off the bench. If the ref doesn't come back, there is no game. Full stop.

Your embarrassing attempt at trying to pretend the ref got it right is worse than his error in the first place - at least he did it in the heat of the moment?!

By all means stick up for the fella (because, whilst what he did was shockingly poor, I do have some sympathy for him) but don't lie on his behalf to try and win an argument?!

The two paragraphs from Fatboy's Limb are a damn sight nearer the mark than the excusist ramble from Wembley 71.

I was brought up to admit mistakes and retain credibility, I would be embarrassed if one of my colleagues jumped in trying to defend me with a load of garbage.