The only common denominator in all this debate is that all think it was a great tragedy, so why in other posts all the 'hot air' about stewarding and restrictions on movement etc etc.. when all the new regulations are to stop this happening again? or is it a case of NIMBY

Hillsborough wasn't just a disaster waiting to happen, it was a repeat of disasters past with no lessons learned. 33 died at Bolton in 1946 at an FA Cup game. Lots of those killed were from Leyth, Bent and Bongs. My grandad got his foot stepped on by a police horse. More details here, if anyone's interested... surprising how similar the scenes are to Hillsborough, aside from the dress codes of the time. www.merseysidepotters.com/Burnden.htm Andy Burnham is a genuine terraces football fan, and those booing show no respect either to the sincerity of the man, nor the solemnity of the occasion. I might lob an insult, or worse, at Maggie T if she walked past our street, but I'd never shout her down at a memorial service.

Hillsborough wasn't just a disaster waiting to happen, it was a repeat of disasters past with no lessons learned. 33 died at Bolton in 1946 at an FA Cup game. Lots of those killed were from Leyth, Bent and Bongs. My grandad got his foot stepped on by a police horse. More details here, if anyone's interested... surprising how similar the scenes are to Hillsborough, aside from the dress codes of the time. www.merseysidepotters.com/Burnden.htm Andy Burnham is a genuine terraces football fan, and those booing show no respect either to the sincerity of the man, nor the solemnity of the occasion. I might lob an insult, or worse, at Maggie T if she walked past our street, but I'd never shout her down at a memorial service.

I have avoided this thread but will just post this , and this is not a dig at the Liverpool club or it's fans as it could have been any of the big clubs and their fans

As others have said there were many mistakes that day and the people asking for ' justice ' are not looking for justice , they are looking for blame

Well one thing that might finally end these calls for justice would be for one , just one Liverpool fan who was there that day without a ticket to stand up and admit that they along with several hundred if not thousand others were partly to blame for those tragic events

They are the ones whose concience is not clear , all the other parties involved have admitted that they were partly to blame

Just one

There is no evidence that ticketless fans caused the deaths that day. Not a bit. There are reams and reams of documents and evidence that the authorities, Sheffield Council, Sheffield Wednesday and the police are culpable for the deaths of 96 innocent people. Despite this, successive governments have failed to address the problems, and the families are left with no true thorough independent enquiry which apportioned responsibility and subsuqent action. Not a single lost job, not a single penny in lost wages. But plenty of compensation for traumatised police officers. Andy Burnham is a member of a government that has shown no interest in the issue until with the 20 year anniversary and public pressure they suddenly decided to act

Not a surprise to see Mancs popping up on here to have digs at Liverpool

It's clear to see the authorites got it wrong that day. No question of the matter.

However, the Liverpool fans were hardly going to ring up Justice Taylor and say 'hey laa, this report thing your doing, me and a few of the lads were trying to blag our way in, just thought you'd like to know' now were they?

Having watched football through the 80's and 90's both at home and abroad it was commonplace for ticketless folk to mill around and then either storm the gates or kick off and hope the police rounded you up and put you in the ground. Not big or clever, but thats what happened. Regularly.

Creating mayhem was often the order of the day to get in and it still happens today some times. Like when Liverpool played in Athens for the Champions League Final, for example. So whilst the grounds now are safe all seated environments with CCTV and trained stewards and policing, we're still getting thousands of ticketless football fans turing up and storming the gates. Tell me, who has moved on and who hasn't.

That cup semi must have been the only big game during in living memory that didn't have ticketless fans turning up and trying to get in.

Don't you find that a bit strange?

Ahh the champion of the great unwashed spouts again who obviously has NOT read the full documentation on this subject (and yes I have studied it at some length and time). many many of the 'pushers' on the day in question admitted to not having a ticket but were intent on gaining admittance but the coroner didnt allow this (amongst other) evidence to go before the Inquest, and as for police officers getting compensation whilst I personally do not fully agree with it I would ask the leftie student has he ever had to see a dead body or 'lay one out' especially if that body be of a child or young person? and dont give me that its part of his/her (police) duties crap for it isn't and if it was its still not a particular thrilling thing to do, or have people kick,throw things and spit at you whilst carrying out first aid on the injured - yes that was documented and filmed also.
And I am neither a man utd liverpool or indeed a football 'fan' just someone who reads the FULL reports and doesnt paraphrase them to suit his own political ideology.

The hypocrisy does annoy though. How many Liverpudlians mocked the Munich Air Disaster. I would surmise that everybody involved in that day from the authoritis to the fans themselves, including some of the dead ones was partly to blame not that blaming anybody alters anything. What will it achieve? Surely they should recognise that however horific, however sad, their children did not die in vain and changed English football for the better.

You have fully embraced the sponging student concept havent you, congratulations.

Quote ="Tyldesley NO1 Leyther"There is no evidence that ticketless fans caused the deaths that day. Not a bit. There are reams and reams of documents and evidence that the authorities, Sheffield Council, Sheffield Wednesday and the police are culpable for the deaths of 96 innocent people. Despite this, successive governments have failed to address the problems, and the families are left with no true thorough independent enquiry which apportioned responsibility and subsuqent action. Not a single lost job, not a single penny in lost wages. But plenty of compensation for traumatised police officers. Andy Burnham is a member of a government that has shown no interest in the issue until with the 20 year anniversary and public pressure they suddenly decided to act Not a surprise to see Mancs popping up on here to have digs at Liverpool '" Not even in Lord Justice Taylors report? Quote ="Lord Justice Taylor"One problem which creates difficulties for the police is the arrival of would-be spectators without tickets at an all-ticket match. Although I found there was not a large body of such fans at Hillsborough there undoubtedly were some. At other matches the numbers have not only been large; they have been determined to gain entrance by one means or another. If they could not acquire tickets at the ground they have created so much trouble that the police have judged it best to let them in. Sometimes this has been for payment; on occasions, even free. The rationale has been that it is better to have troublemakers inside the ground where they can be monitored than roaming round the town at large. Obviously, the practice of admitting fans without tickets has a bad knock-on effect. Bands of fans unable to get tickets believe that if they turn up and create sufficient clamour the police will admit them.'" As people have posted ticketless fans were the norm in the 80's and to think that an FA cup semi final wouldn't have attracted any is just being nieve. The poblem with the Leppings lane end was once you approched the turnstyle ticket or no ticket you weren't getting back out because of the bottle necked entrance. The interim and final report can be found here www.southyorks.police.uk/foi/pub ... icinterest If you also read page three of the document you'll find that the police officers were due to recive compenstion claim against the chief constable but after reveiw the of the House of Lords found in favour of the chief constables and no compensation was paid. Yet £23m has been paid out in claims from fans that day with two reciveing over £1m the rest shared between 1500 other claims.

Quote ="Tyldesley NO1 Leyther"There is no evidence that ticketless fans caused the deaths that day. Not a bit. There are reams and reams of documents and evidence that the authorities, Sheffield Council, Sheffield Wednesday and the police are culpable for the deaths of 96 innocent people. Despite this, successive governments have failed to address the problems, and the families are left with no true thorough independent enquiry which apportioned responsibility and subsuqent action. Not a single lost job, not a single penny in lost wages. But plenty of compensation for traumatised police officers. Andy Burnham is a member of a government that has shown no interest in the issue until with the 20 year anniversary and public pressure they suddenly decided to act Not a surprise to see Mancs popping up on here to have digs at Liverpool '" Not even in Lord Justice Taylors report? Quote ="Lord Justice Taylor"One problem which creates difficulties for the police is the arrival of would-be spectators without tickets at an all-ticket match. Although I found there was not a large body of such fans at Hillsborough there undoubtedly were some. At other matches the numbers have not only been large; they have been determined to gain entrance by one means or another. If they could not acquire tickets at the ground they have created so much trouble that the police have judged it best to let them in. Sometimes this has been for payment; on occasions, even free. The rationale has been that it is better to have troublemakers inside the ground where they can be monitored than roaming round the town at large. Obviously, the practice of admitting fans without tickets has a bad knock-on effect. Bands of fans unable to get tickets believe that if they turn up and create sufficient clamour the police will admit them.'" As people have posted ticketless fans were the norm in the 80's and to think that an FA cup semi final wouldn't have attracted any is just being nieve. The poblem with the Leppings lane end was once you approched the turnstyle ticket or no ticket you weren't getting back out because of the bottle necked entrance. The interim and final report can be found here www.southyorks.police.uk/foi/pub ... icinterest If you also read page three of the document you'll find that the police officers were due to recive compenstion claim against the chief constable but after reveiw the of the House of Lords found in favour of the chief constables and no compensation was paid. Yet £23m has been paid out in claims from fans that day with two reciveing over £1m the rest shared between 1500 other claims.

Quote ="mutt1"Not even in Lord Justice Taylors report? As people have posted ticketless fans were the norm in the 80's and to think that an FA cup semi final wouldn't have attracted any is just being nieve. The poblem with the Leppings lane end was once you approched the turnstyle ticket or no ticket you weren't getting back out because of the bottle necked entrance. The interim and final report can be found here www.southyorks.police.uk/foi/pub ... icinterest If you also read page three of the document you'll find that the police officers were due to recive compenstion claim against the chief constable but after reveiw the of the House of Lords found in favour of the chief constables and no compensation was paid. Yet £23m has been paid out in claims from fans that day with two reciveing over £1m the rest shared between 1500 other claims.'" Of course there were ticketless fans there but Tyldesley NO1 Leyther is right - there is no evidence that ticketless fans caused the deaths that day. Your quote from the Taylor report does nothing to contradict that. As for compensation, some police officers were denied the right to sue for damages but plenty more received payments. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1197720.stm www.independent.co.uk/news/hills ... 89055.html

Quote ="mutt1"Not even in Lord Justice Taylors report? As people have posted ticketless fans were the norm in the 80's and to think that an FA cup semi final wouldn't have attracted any is just being nieve. The poblem with the Leppings lane end was once you approched the turnstyle ticket or no ticket you weren't getting back out because of the bottle necked entrance. The interim and final report can be found here www.southyorks.police.uk/foi/pub ... icinterest If you also read page three of the document you'll find that the police officers were due to recive compenstion claim against the chief constable but after reveiw the of the House of Lords found in favour of the chief constables and no compensation was paid. Yet £23m has been paid out in claims from fans that day with two reciveing over £1m the rest shared between 1500 other claims.'" Of course there were ticketless fans there but Tyldesley NO1 Leyther is right - there is no evidence that ticketless fans caused the deaths that day. Your quote from the Taylor report does nothing to contradict that. As for compensation, some police officers were denied the right to sue for damages but plenty more received payments. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1197720.stm www.independent.co.uk/news/hills ... 89055.html

Excuse my scouse naivety but Bent and Bongs?????

And we'll never fill the ground

Atherton and Tyldesley

Cheers RC&W, is there a reason why they are called that?

[url=http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Atherton/index.htmlHeres why Atherton is bent[/url

[url=http://wapedia.mobi/en/Tyldesleyand Tyldesley is bongs[/url

Now i know, cheers guys....

Well some of us are doing the exact opposite.
There for the grace and all that...

Thanks for that, I've just been reading "Pies and Predjudice" by Stuart Maconie and he mentions that he's never known why they were known as that, and I realised then that I didn't either

TBH I didnt and so when the question was asked I thought I would educate myself and then share my new found knowledge with the masses

Thank you ohhhhhhh knowlegable one

Ahh but Leigh is known thus because?

Not a clue Frederico

Is it from the time when the state of Westleyth declared Independance from the known universe and the surrounding minor parishes who then tinkered with the name and came up with the Leigh tag ?

It comes from an "Old English" word that means meadow/pasture.