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I made that decision last year Keith the tos-rs who run the pro game
have ruined it and they are gettin no more money of me or my family
re Internationals or SL games

Im with you Mr chairman

I have to say that if we dont get a result against the Kiwis next week then the RFL can say goodbye to any decent crowds at any international games. And it is because of the whole setup that the RFL has incorperated- including the whole SL debacle - that we are trailing Australia. We have way too many foreign players over here and coaches aswell. Get the SL millions spent on sporting excellence projects with people who are certified to run them. Not just ex players who have done their badges but scientists who know sports and fitness science. People who can instill the right mental attitude in the lads at an early age. Thats what beat us out there today, the attitude of the game because our players had the wrong one.
Thats where the Sky millions should be being spent and in the districts that play the bloody game. The areas that have a wealth of amature tallent. Expansion. You wont even have a bloody proffesional RL game if those idiots at Redhall don't open their eyes.

I agree that the 'product' is better than it was, though key abilities are not.

We didnt need Super League to produce the likes of Hanley, Edwards, Myler, Millward, Murphy, Ashcroft for example. Players from a similar pool of players available nw. They were naturals, born that way, and I dont for one minute doubt folk of similar ability have stopped being born.

However, whethr its today or over the last 10 years, there is not one player in the England team who the Aussies would have in theirs and we have to ask ourselves why.

Are they coached out of it, are they not tested to the highest of their ability week in week out, are they given rewards before they're due, are their abilites over inflated? I have no idea. But there is something amiss.

Ellis could push them, Morley and Peacock a couple of years ago, but after that, we're very average which for me is the biggest failing of the professional era.

This is one of the worse threads I've ever read on here?!

Is anyone seriously suggesting that we shouldn't have gone full time?!? Maybe if we'd stayed part time as a sports we'd thrashed the Aussies today?!



Australians grow up with a rugby ball in their hands and the Government plough an absolute fortune into sports. Neither of those things happen here so, surprisingly, we're no-where near their level of performance on the pitch.

The state of international RL is a farce because it's a minority sport. If the only nations in the World that played competitive international football were Brazil, Argentina and England then football fans would get the same deal as we're getting now.

We can either forget internationals and concentrate on improving our domestic game, or forget the development/expansion of our domestic game and concentrate on improving international RL. My only concern is that, at present, we seem to be torn between the two and improving neither significantly.

And no, I don't blame that on the 'idiots/morons/to55ers/etc' that run the RFL - they're a bunch of people who are lucky enough to be working within the game we all love, who are almost all guaranteed to be trying to improve our sports. Just because you don't agree with some of their decisions/policies doesn't mean they deserve abusing when England lose.

yeah and one used to run the british lawn tennis i abut m not sayin full time rugby as been b ad but we need to develop the game in the places were the game is strong and stop keep bringin teams in that have hardly any english players in and add nothin to the game

Oh there have been a lot worse



I think I agree with most of what your saying, though I have a couple of Aussie mates who will happily point out that RL is also a 'minority' sport over there and not as big as you're saying. They are in fairness football, cricket and RU fans



The moot point is that after 15 years of professionalism we're still nowhere near them at international level, which is a big dissapointment considering the money Sky have pumped into the game.

The Aussies of 82 ran through us just as easily as they did in the first half today, and personally I found it embarassing. Thats nowhere near saying we should not have gone pro, that would be silly, I just expect a bit more after 15 years of it.

Amazing how we expect Aussies to have stood still since the days we came close to beating them but not doing. 15 years of P & R and teams getting a season in the sun is over. Maybe we will never get nearer Aussies but unless we have a comp with the intensity of NRL, and also with international nations competing with us we will always be stumped.
Its about time some supporters started thinking outside of the box a bit more, instead of having a go at SL at every opportunity.

Look mate, I'm concious that I joust with you regularly, dont take it personally



The teams involved with P&R rarely present players of international quality, never have never will. If they did they would not be there.

So lets look at the top 4, consistantly the same over the last 15 years. Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Bradford. We can throw Hull and Wire into it if you like.

Almost safe from relegation for 15 years with a large income; what have they produced that is consistantly good enough for the international stage?

There is nothing wrong or negative with saying 'given what has been put in, and the time given, this isn't good enough'. Ignoring the issue won't resolve it will it?

There is something wrong when stand out players in our competitions here are shown to be carthorses or one trick ponies on the international stage.... We had better players 20 years ago.

In my opinion we need to come up with our own way of playing the game, our own variations that stand us as different, not the Bradford method of 6 years ago that all the top clubs have adopted. Bash away for four tackles, put two passes out and then on the last kick...

Sam Tomkins and Kevin Sinfield in the second half were the best things to happen as both decided to chance their arm more. We need to play more off instinct... It must frustrate the life out of people like Mr Chairman who see kids leave them with skills and then years later they see them and they haven't developed into the players they should have... or they play completely different from the instinct that grew.

The flair and skill is disappearing today, it all seems to be about reinventing the wheel. In the forwards we dont have a problem it's halves and threequarters...

Everyone thought that, once he was given a bit of space, he showed why he will be one of the Best in the world in a few years.

My biggest gripe is playing Lee Smith, he is a traitor and leaving for kick and clap, so why has he been picked ahead of senior?
I think Senior would have made a difference yesterday.
Drop McGuire he's a waste of space, Myler and Tomkins at 6&7, with Moore at 9 and Eastmond at 13.

The pack can match anyone, just need sort out 3/4 which is very worrying.
Briscoe was there at FB, but thats it, Shenton needs to move to a bigger club in order too improve.
I was calling for Ellis to go to Centre in the 2nd and when he did, again the difference was there too see.

And the Aussies didn't know how too handle Crabtree at times!

And i'd drop Graham the fat ginger waste of space!!!

You want intensity, bring back P&R and spread the money to ALL RFL member clubs on a sliding scale, sounds fair to me. D i c k head Lewis destroyed British Tennis too.

The money isn't that great compared to other sports. To share the money would dilute what we have now surely. Besides why doesn't Premier League share its vast wealth with lower league clubs to help stop them going under ? It won't happen because all clubs think of themselves - and thats football and rugby.
Intensity in P&R isn't the same. Its 2 to 4 clubs that are on a bad run etc in a small league battling it out and loser gets kicked out and put into a PT league. Thats too negative a focus for me.
Intensity is bottom beating top, and not knowing the outcome of a match beforehand etc Actually going to a game and praying to allah and hoping you can beat the apposing side, instead of not bothering to go because you will win easilly or lose. Where every game is a must win, and you know you have a chance no matter which SL club you follow. Where at the beginning of a season, whether you are cas, Wire, or Leeds fans you go into the season expecting to get to GF and expecting you can beat anyone. A 14 or 16 elite competition where all clubs focuses on being the best and competing to win trophies. Not a 14 club competition where 2 or 3 clubs will realistically win it every year, then 3 to 5 more clubs just make numbers up and playoffs, then rest of usual clubs take it in turns who will go in PT League to be replaced by a even weaker club that will battle it out in relegation season after.
Will SL ever get there - who knows but its got to be a aim. Just like spreading the game has to be a continuous aim and priority. But swapping clubs between a PT and FT league won't help the competition, because history has shown this. Crowds have also proved there is no interest in it either because if there was they would turn uup week in week out insteasd of the once in a blue moon deciders (the famous Cas v Wakey type of games).

Also I was proud of England yesterday in 2nd half, and did Australia take their foot off the gas - maybe. But going off their reaction at the hooter I think we gave them a mighty scare, and was very close to a major upset and a classic. A bit more luck and we might of done the impossible in the 2nd half. That Tompkins looks to be a very good player for the future. Good crowd considering we didn't have a hope b4 the game.

Nothing wrong with that at all. But once we start looking back fondly at "good old days" instead of looking at modern day sport situation then we are doomed.
Also wasn't there 2 players yesterday from ex relegation fodder clubs - one particular one that was one of the star performers too?
Also do you not agree depending on the top 3 or 4 clubs to supply internationals is not healthy?

You have grouped two things together here that need seperating. Expansion and developing our leagues. Strengthen the leagues as they were and expansion would have come naturaly. Also with very strong leagues would have come a better international setup. Our game yet again is trying to make too big a jump towards being a national sport. Like I said before we need to tap the resources that have been playing this game for over a hundred years first before ploughing money into areas that have shown that there is little on no interest. And yes I believe that a strong internation team would also help expansion too. A winning England team shown on our TV would inspire youngsters to play the game all over the country. That ground would have been sold out five years ago. Has the penny not dropped yet that there is something that is going wrong.

I agree with thist post 100%

Sinfield is the most effective 9 in this country by a mile and showed it 2nd 40.

His defence around the ruck and ability to distribute really laid the platform and gave both Tomkins and Maguire the chance to run at the line.

Roby hasnt progressesd as well as his early potential promised at that level and seems to have losty half a yard. What the hell does Diskin have to do to get a shout??????

Not sure on Moore or Higham as International options!

Fantastic Shout!

We are always looking to model our game and on the Aussies and seem to show them far to much respect.

All we heard all week in the build up to the game is how good Lockyer is and How fantastic Inglis is!!!

!st half we seemed to stand back and admire them and the desision to start Smith in the Centre and 19yo winger was suicide.

Credit to Smith though he got his troops in at half time rectified his mistake and mangaed to changed the mindset of the boys.

Three key moves that changed the game for me:

1. Nulified Inglis by putting Ellis in his face and he didnt like it one bit.
2. Counter acted Smith by utilising Sinfield in the dummy half role on both attack and defence.
3. Changed to tactis on 4th and 5th play with ball in hand to a short kicking game and encouraged our exciting halves to take on the line.

Lockyer is still quallity but at 32 doesnt want to have to defend for long periods like he had to 2nd 40 and wont fancy having to chase exciting elusive pacy players like Tomkins and Eastmond around all day.

Id be looking to get Sinfield and Eastmond rotating at 9 and maybe utilise Myler (offers more with ball in hand than Maguire for me) and Tomkins and run the balls of them if we get aanother crack at them.

For the thread question....

F.uck all, its done absolutley nothing if anything our team has gone backwards. What the idiots at the rfl dont realise its not the stopping of relegation, its the fact that they have Massive Rugby League acadamies and are scouting players as young as 6 and bringing them and coaching them all the way through their life, they even educate them.

Its a enormous sport over there and gets back and front page coverage in all the papers, ours is a average game for our country in the M62 corridor that only makes the 3rd from back page when the grand final is won.


FACT






Jiffy

Well I think our second half performance reflected well on the players.

Our coach obviously changed the game plan at HT and he had too. With a bit more zip in our passing I don,t think we,d be that bad.

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SENIOR retired from International rugby after the World cup


Graham was pretty good yesterday his workload was top class

The key for me is actually getting our top players over to the NRL!

Ellis has had a stormer in the NRL as did Morley who came back a better player!

Burgess is going out there and would be great to see players like Westerman (massive tallent and potential) get the chance.

Think Tomkins will only get better at Wigan under the new coach who has taken massive raps for his role in the development of the likes of Inglis etc.

Along with Nathan Brown this guy Wigan have brought over is the right end of his carreer and bringing over the latest and even new coaching and development ideas.

Likes of the Macrea and some of the other Aussie hangers on offer nothing new and should no longer be entertained in SL for me but likes of Nathan Brown are a breath of fresh air and signs that we are starting to attract Aussies at the right age who are coming to develop themselves rather than just top up a pension.

It definitely says something when our top players are signed by NRL, you just know that that player will be better at International level next time they play!

You include Millward in that I take it?