Quote ="FredParky"thats the one he is talking about Leigh ran out to 'Entry of the Gladiators' by Julius Fucik (can't write that after one or two) for donkeys years www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B0CyOAO8y0'" You are right Fred THAT IS ITS TITLE , it was played at my beloved Tower , for years ,when i was a lad in the early 60s , Leighs nickname was the COMICS , was it because they came out to this music? As for a Survey im still getting used to jonnies polls, dont complicate things further.

Quote ="FredParky"thats the one he is talking about Leigh ran out to 'Entry of the Gladiators' by Julius Fucik (can't write that after one or two) for donkeys years www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B0CyOAO8y0'" You are right Fred THAT IS ITS TITLE , it was played at my beloved Tower , for years ,when i was a lad in the early 60s , Leighs nickname was the COMICS , was it because they came out to this music? As for a Survey im still getting used to jonnies polls, dont complicate things further.

In the 2004/5 season I chaired a working group of fans who were tasked by Allan Rowley to indentify areas in which the club could improve and,if feasible, undertake some of these projects ourselves.
We had a small group of people involved, including Leyther Matt and Woolrab .In my view , we put forward a number of interesting ideas to the club--Mike Callaghan was the point of contact.The working group operated in a professional manner and we had agenda and minutes for each meeting.Unfortunately, the lack of resources within the club meant that the suggestions did not get the attention they deserved.
We carried out a large scale questionnaire survey at an Halifax home match and followed this up by questioning people on a Saturday at the Spinning Gate.The results from the questionnairs surveyed were subject to detailed analysis and a report was written and given to Allan Rowley.I presented the key findings to a LISA meeting at which Steve was present.
The essentials of the study can be found in the following paper:
Dale BG,van Iwaarden j,van der wiele T and Williams ART.Service Improvement in a Sports Environment: a Study of Spectator Attendance.The paper was published in Managing Service Quality in 2005 ,volume15,number 5 ,pages 470to 484.
Barrie Dale

My recommendation, if we're going to do a survey would be to keep it focused and short. People are likely to answer a short survey with more considered answers.

Focus on one facet of an issue and try to probe for solutions for that.

As an example we could focus on the clubs PR and media coverage. Find out how, when & how often people hear about us, how they hear about other clubs, if they are likely to seek out info on the club, if they use the website, if more info would make them more likely to attend, etc.

Just one example of what we could do. Just make sure that it isn't something that only people dedicated to the club would fill out.

Yes thats the one i was talking about, we had quite a few people working together didn't we. Didn't Mike Callaghan leave around about the time the analysis was completed and presented ?.

Be better to survey people that dont already go to games I'd have thought. Need to find out why they dont go and what would encourage them to support their local club.

I remember the survey being done , but I also remember many of the conclusions not being very specific , ie preferred match day and time , also as has been suggested , there are two distinct sides to things , fans who do attend , and those that don't

So an actual fans ( attending ) survey will only tell you preferred options , and those vary quite considerably , the information you do want is age , location and ST or individual ticket options and the like , hence my ' ticket book ' suggestion

As jonny suggested , it would also help with looking at transport to stadium options , but the problem again is that the move to the LSV and subsequent changes in peoples pre and post match habits are now set , and therefore hard to change

So we then come to the problem of getting more fans , how do you ' survey ' them ?

You come up with the age old issue of is it worth trying to tempt back Ex fans , or concentrate on new ones

To me the ' Ex ' is exactly that ' Ex ' , any energy trying to get them back is a complete waste of time , they might return , but only until you have one , what they consider ' bad ' result , and that will be the last you see of them , you cannot rely on either a winning team or playing fantastic RL , as quite simply that is beyond your control

So for me it is the 90 percent of our ' population ' that have never set foot inside the LSV or watched LRLFC play before that we need to target , how you ' survey ' them is a very difficult one , the only logical way is to get them into the stadium to watch a game , and then ask the questions

Where having details of your existing customers is important in this instance is having a point of contact that allows you to explain what you are doing and why you are doing it

Ultimatly the point of contact with the 90 percent who are potential customers/fans is the community dept , it is how you use that which will decide what our future will be , we tried at Hilton Park , we dedicated part of the Hilton stand as a ' family ' section , we had fans arguing with us that " I always sit here , I'm not moving " , so fair enough , we left them sat in the middle of a load of screaming kids , they put up with it then grudgingly moved over to the next section 20 feet away



Now the LSV is a completely different situation , it is very simple to have dedicated areas for different types of fan , be they long term diehards , or families on a free ticket incentive , but as I said , communication is the key , if you don't get the message across , you will be criticised , and incentives will be abused , which then causes more resentment

We all want the same thing , a club to follow

I thought MC left at the end of the 2006 season (during Bensongate) whereas the survey was during the 2004 season?

Yes basically exactly 5 years ago , I went the week before

One of the biggest reasons when I have asked mates who don't go anymnore is that they are working doing extra jobs to make more money or their shifts conflict with games. Not saying it's true for everyone but peoples working practices are not monday to friday anymore.

Which means we could play each game on a different day of the week and it still wouldn't suit everyone.

That's the excuse they use , rather than it just doesn't interest them anymore , we live in a blame culture , there is always a reason , and as you suggest if that is the reason , it isn't something that the club can do anything about , no matter when you play ( not forgetting being told when to play for TV ) you will lose some fans because of work/ other commitments

As I said ' Ex ' is ' Ex ' , not worth the effort

Think that's a little harsh Steve as I know several people who don't attend anywhere near as many games as they used to because of work commitments, but they do turn up whenever they can get the time off.

We weren't discussing those that come when work permits , it was those who's stock reply is " I can't because of work " , when as has been suggested , we don't always play on the same days

Their actual reason is , " I can't be bothered " , but they don't want to say that

Like it or not, I think it [iis[/i a genuine reason for some.

My idea was originally to conduct a survey for any fan, be it stay away fans, first timers, part timers or season ticket holders.

If a survey was conducted by all leythers and there turned out to be a few distinct, cost free or profitable measures that could be taken on board it would be a success.

With Trevor Barton being so receptive to fans and open to ideas at the moment, it seems a good time to get a general view of what the current fans want.

I agree Matt , it is , and the problem maybe isn't that they can't be bothered , but maybe one of just ' getting out of the habit ' because of either work patterns or changes in match days , but the issue still is that those potential few hundred fans cannot be accommodated by the club , so do you expand energy trying , or do you look at the 50,000 who maybe don't have that problem ?

So jonny , tell us how you actually pyhsically ' survey 'those 4 different groups ?

That's why I was waiting to see what you thought before I actually carried on talking about it.

The club has contacts with season ticket holders, lottery members, e-mail subscribers and everyone in the town gets the Journal and Reporter. Why not do an advert for carrying out an online survey in one or both of these? Maybe do a prize draw for Season Tickets/replicas etc?

Sorry Jonny but I can't remember the last time I has a journal and not had the reporter for a few weeks now, plus carrying adverts in these papers costs money so any 'survey' would have to be cost effective especially in these austere times and compounding the cost of an advert by free gifts isn't on, I know where your coming from but the money is not there.
The only way of carrying out any survey that gets results is physically asking the questions not from newspaper returns, so which of the 2 full time members of the admin staff do it and when? so it's down to volunteers.
The lottery members etc.. could be surveyed by having the few key questions that need answering on the back of their weekly lottery sheet, the internet user by e mail but in the main these are the ones that go anyway and surely the questions need answering is by the lapsed or part time fan?

Jonny
The questionnaire was designed by the working group and passed to the club for comment.It was given out to fans as they came trough the turnstiles and collected in boxes at the exits and at the Mick Martyn bar.This method worked as we received over 100 completed questionnaires.if you wish to carry out a survey I would suggeest that you use this approach.Also ,if you wish I would get one of my former colleagues (an expert in questionnairs design) to advise on the questionnaire.
I am sure that Trevor would encourage such an initiative under the umbrella of the PSG.
Barrie

As has been explained , using local press doesn't work and as Fred has pointed out , the club just doesn't have the resources , also even just asking attending fans doesn't give you enough information , so how do you get the response we need to provide the answers we are seeking ?

Well if you look just beyond the LSV , you see what ?

A college , one that has students in it , students that are doing courses on media and quite probably marketing , and part of those courses include ?

Data collection , it is to the college we should be looking to provide us with the man/woman power to collect , then collate and provide the break down of information we need

But then you have the next question ? , what do you do with that information ? , how do you use it ?

As the song suggests jonny , there are more questions than answers

In fact my suggestion is you start with the questions first , and the questions you ask are to yourself , what am I trying to achieve , then decide how you get your answers

Forget it.

I bet if you ask the majority of people who have stopped going in the last 4/5 years why they will say no promotion!!

Until we have P&R back our crowds will NEVER increase much beyond what we have now. They are more likely to go down.

I wonder where all those people are who quite happily went to Blackpool and drank themselves silly all weekend now.

The only way that you could cover the area would be a royal mail letter drop or a volunteer one. I would before the drop puit an advert in the local press for a few weeks and get it put out on the local radio and if possible hit the local tv news desks with the idea saying "Leigh fans hit the streets to save the club" type of headline. The idea of a chance to win a ST could be a good incentive say offering five with lower prizes of shirts and so on down to stickers. The advert would be a plee to the people of our district to please just fill in the questionaire with the chance to win something. In the letter put a little brochure about the LSV showing what fantastic facillities we have ( a piece maybe the LSV could contribute to as they would be benefiting from it also). A tv press launch with loads of us in front off the stadium with postie bags on and our shirts,on Look North and Granada Reports would get it noticed also. I know it going to cost but how do we do it. I have sounded out the Post office to do this for me and would be looking at about £5000. That cost could be massively reduced with volunteers and cheaper printing. I for one would deliver a bag full.

That's one way of looking at it.

The other is that there's no evidence at all to support that argument.

We all remember the glory days of P & R in the 90's when we posted sub 1k crowds and a 1500 attendance was a good crowd. Then we remember getting promoted, smashed and then dumped back into the national leagues in 2006.
Our crowds then have gone from

2006-2281
2007-1867
2008-2490
2009-1984
2010-2144
2011-2379