Harry, I agree with you 100% and don't be cowed by anybody on here. A textbook cock-up. Our money from Sky, an additional 500k from SL, plus revenue from tickets/merchandise and presumably some of Derek's own money has apparently ALL (or mostly) be blown on ONE season. A season of complete and utter failure at the end of the day, despite a valiant attempt to dig ourselves out of our own hole. Where was the contingency planning, the Plan B? Did we need to have a Grade A (on paper) squad but a Grade C coach? What has been done is simply unforgiveable. Didn't we have a smart Finance guy on the board who was keeping things under control? Whatever happened to him? And now Derek walks away, leaving us to pick up the pieces, unless he changes his mind again! In my mind, he has let us down very badly, and it's a pity that his reputation is now in tatters as I believe his heart is in the right place. However, I sincerely hope he doesn't run his business in the same manner!

As for 2,500 against Batley , I actually think you might be a little optimistic. Yes, there is a hard core of support, but how big is it? Hopefully, there will be positive developments in the next 6 months to give us all some hope of being back to sustainable, prudently run club.

Reputation in tatters ? , nope , everybody makes decisions in good faith ' sometimes they work , sometimes they don't , thats the way it is

He obviously doesn't run his business the same way or he wouldn't have had the money to put in , if he ran the club in the same way as his business , he wouldn't be involved with the club , simple as

Ultimately if our ' core ' fan base is less than 2,500 we don't deserve SL , and ' prudence ' is fine , but boring and rarely if ever achieves anything , certainly in sport

I don't think his reputation is in tatters, the selection of his immediate managerial staff has been his downfall, that and not having the abillity to sense that those appointments were not in the best interests of the rugby club and not having either the sense or the dangly bits to make the nessacary adjustments.

As for prudence, are you an all eggs in one basket kind of guy Gubby, do you throw everything at any one thing in particular, or do you measure your assests with contingencies, like savings or insurance or pension for when the time comes that you need to call on them, those things may be boring but they are essential if you want to continue to enjoy life.

As Maple Leyther said, where was the financial guru to pull the reigns in, or was he just a cashier who held the purse and gave the contents over till the purse was empty?

So, what do you think our 'core supporter' numbers are?, I suspect we have both been regulars through the bad times of around just over the four figure mark, our season in SL said we averaged 6,500, from that figure I doubt the away following exceeded an average of 1,500 that would have given us over 5,000 of our own, last week yielded 3,100, will that be about our average after this season is completed? Whatever it is the trend is the Leigh public are deserting, that trend needs addressing, it is not the people on this site that need convincing to stay it is those who have doubts, the club needs to spend some money to target those people............................... hang on a mo, we've no money it all went in fell swoop, no contingencies!

PS, I don't know you Gubby, I have an idea who you may be from other posts you have made on this and another site, you have indicated that you were once in an officious position within the club, maybe at board level? If I have got that correct would you have taken the same path as we ventured on this season?

Impossible to know wether I or anyone else would have done things differently due to not knowing Derek's situation at that time and indeed now having the benifit of hindsight

My own preferences have always been to try to build the fan base , something I would be much more proactive in if it was my decision , and of course my money

Essentially, DB didn't know how to adapt when Rowley unexpectedly 'abandoned' him. I think we all agree an experienced head was needed ala Tim Sheens. But instead, Jukes came in and subsequently Cunningham immersed himself in the coaching along with Jukes which evidently didn't help things -- probably wanted Jukes out and the coaches role for himself.

DB did a much better job than Cunningham as Head with regards to player recruitment. Post MPG, if management had renegotiated with and kept the majority of the 2017 squad... A promotion to SL was definitely on. Who initiated the clear out?

A few poor choices and the Cunningham Effect = Disaster! Look at Saints, new coach, 1 new player and the transformation is immense.

And that's where Salford are going to struggle, whether they survive the '8's' or not. We have a head start on them, providing we can maintain a good level of support throughout this 'crisis'. The 'instant fix' of achieving SL status, gave us some good gates, but I'm not sure how we build up the support in the Championship or, dread the thought, in League 1.

You work and invest in building your fan base no matter where you are on the league ladder ' you use your community dept/trust/foundation ' whatever it is called to get people ( young and old ) into the stadium on a match day by hook or crook , it isn't just the match or the quality of the opposition that can/will draw them back , it is the atmosphere and the ' feel good ' of being ( becoming ) part of something fun , a sense of belonging and ownership

I very much feel we missed out when initially moving into the LSV , Arthur while happy to invest quite heavily in players and coaching wasn't happy to put any money into marketing , instead just expecting people to come ' we really should have been all over the town inviting the whole town to come and witness just how good it could be

A big crowd generates its own atmosphere , and becomes self serving

Back in the day when Widnes had returned to SL (2011/12?) and Mike Callaghan was our Commercial/General manager, I gave him a copy of an interview with Widnes's then Commercial manager. In that interview, he stated that the biggest mistake Widnes made on returning to SL, was to assume there was no need to get out and about in the town to make sure everyone know that they were in SL. He reckoned that the club just short-sightedly sat back and assumed the people would come to them.

It's always been a source of amazement that RL clubs - ours just as much as any other - are happy to splash the cash on players (and granted, they are obviously needed) but not on promoting the product they are trying to sell. Surely, every business promotes its product - why not RL clubs?

Hypothetically if I was to be appointed CEO/general manager for next season , I'd first request my marketing budget ( 30K ) be placed in a separate ring fenced acc for me to access as and when I deemed fit for whatever purpose I deemed suitable , because otherwise any request for a marketing spend during the season just wouldn't happen ' then I'd be knocking on my mate Simon Toons door asking him which bits of the LSV site can I have use of for free or at cost to get the stadium full

I was going to approach Derek earlier this year , but after our terrible start I decided his attention would have been elsewhere

The challenge is, where do you invest your cash to maximise ROI? The differential being, rugby league isn't a physical product (want or need), it isn't a service (solve a 'problem'), I guess it comes under the 'entertainment' category and it isn't (the first match is obviously) a one-off event such as a concert, festival, musical or other such experience. I'm sure most fans were hooked as kids as a result of what Gubrats describes, the senses being overloaded with euphoria and the 'addiction' being born. How do you sell that experience (with a rugby ball) to an adult who has the challenges of life to contend with? Do you let them in for free as a loss leader so to speak? The issue with that is, most regulars (who pay on the gate) would jump on it which negates the profit potential.

I'm sure most rugby league clubs would love to hear some new ideas on the subject. Any takers?

Plenty of simple ways to negate existing fans ( loose term if they take that as helping THEIR club ) taking advantage of organised free or heavily discounted entry

It's families , or specifically the mothers and children that you target , mostly via schools and other activity clubs

But it does require some up front cash outside the playing staff budget which is where the problems usually start , which is more important , a potential match winning player on the books tommorrow ? , or a 50/100/150/200 gain on future attendances ?

They have to strike now why the iron is hot. Sheffield at home again in the first fixture doesn't help.

Lots of thought gone into that.

Some very poor decisions being made. That fixture should have been changed.

Pathetic.

Presumably the fixtures are arrived at by some formula? Change it at the request of one club, and you may risk being asked to change it by others - e.g Toronto?

Sorry atomic , I don't get your point , you highlighted the numbers I posted then commented on our next fixture

I'm not suggesting you just distribute tickets out at a random game , it requires a whole season strategy building up to 1 or 2 fixtures where your focus is to get upwards of a 1000+ ' new ' extra fans in using currently unused parts of the stadium

You monitor your successes and adjust accordingly season on season

What is the formula for the scheduling of fixtures? We know the format has a formula for home/away games, but who says in what order they are to be played?

Let’s see! Leigh played Sheffield last game regular season. Oh look first game in the lower 8’s, same again. Wonderful scheduling.

That’s the problem with this sport,no thinking process.

After the atmosphere and feel good factor at the last game, I think Sheffield first up is ideal.

Surely the paranoia that the RFL has stitched us up isn’t bubbling around the Shield.

My first ever Leigh Rugby match was free. I climbed over with a few other children, living in the barracks. I was immediately hooked on the game, the sport, the occasion, the atmosphere. I couldn't wait for the next match Leigh was my team from that moment, to now as I write this. It is also my family's team and will also be the team of the next generation of Rigby s. No doubt about that.

I have re paid that one free match back to the Club, over and over year on year and continue to do so.

I was in Morrison's a while ago and a team were giving out free samples of Coca Cola, encouraging shoppers to sample and buy. I looked up how much Coca-Cola were worth, and then it struck me why they were giving out free samples. To stay top of the tree and to grow the income even more.

Gubrats has hit the nail firmly on the head here.

Don't know what the formula is, or whether there even is one. It was just a suggestion, that there may be one. We could have also played Swinton at home (which was our penultimate home game, the week before Sheffield) or Rochdale away. (which was our last away game)

Look at the Super 8's - Warrington's first game is against Catalans. The following week it is the Cup Final, which looks like being Warrington v Catalans. It's just the way things fall, and we have to get on with it, ideal or not.

Tell you what though - that Leigh v Sheffield game was highly entertaining. More of the same would be good.

Try selling that from a marketing point of view. We've just had a very passionate and emotional fixture against them.

Do you think we'll get the same? Terrible choice of scheduling by the RFL. No thought whatsoever.

Simple question for you, why should Leigh get the fixtures they would choose and which fixtures would you choose?

You have had a moan about playing Sheffield first but haven’t come up with an alternative.

There’s three other home fixtures of which any could have been chosen. It’s not a moan, it’s practical. Why choose a fixture that we’ve just witnessed first up? When clearly other options were available.

The governing body is suppose to support in the best interests of the game. Tunnel vision springs to mind on this decision and will cost bums on seats.

It possibly will, although I reckon not getting in the top four will cost more bums on seats.

The governing body is not supposed to support the whim of Leigh !
Why oh why would the RFL change the schedule just because Leigh have just played Sheffield ? What you are saying is just lunacy !

I never said they did. I said support the game.. Your lunacy point needs to be pointed at DB not moi..