Wire -> salford -> bradford. Quite a decline in 12 months. https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/ ... gton-star/

Wire -> salford -> bradford. Quite a decline in 12 months. https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/ ... gton-star/

Quote ="Wires71"Wire -> salford -> bradford. Quite a decline in 12 months. https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/ ... gton-star/'" Good signing for Bradford, always tried his best for us, good luck to the lad.

Quote ="Wires71"Wire -> salford -> bradford. Quite a decline in 12 months. https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/ ... gton-star/'" Good signing for Bradford, always tried his best for us, good luck to the lad.

The trend of players that leave us is strange. Wilde, Evans (2), Blythe, Penny, Mitchell, Laithwaite and many others have had starts with us, some even played in grand finals, but have left to never be seen again really. You could even put Riley in that bracket.

Are these players not as good as we think they are/were?

I think that's definitely the case.

I think with a large chunk of above, we didn't think they were great did we?

Rhys Evans is the only one of those that I thought may have good career ahead of him but he seemed to stall and not progress any further.

In regards to Patton, I don't wish to start bashing him, but it was inevitable he'd end up in the championship. I wish him well there and hope he has a good few years in him.

Nope but we can see g king will dagger l Johnson for hull jr pushing cats in a semi final O'Brien has played well since leaving us Brad Dwyer so we've had a few flop but more recently I think we've improved.

Realistically, Johnson and Dagger are solid reserves. O’Brien and Dwyer have gone on the be as good as they were with us, marginally better maybe. Rhys Williams has had a good career too

There was a time when there was a bit of expectation around a few of those. When Mitchell scored “that try”, Patton started a Grand Final, as did Wilde who at the time I think a few were excited about his development.

Penny and Riley we’re both good for us, Riley playing for the Knights and being a regular and holding his own in a really strong team.

You sometimes get people on here saying that these guys were all terrific prospects they were just held back by poor coaching with us. But if that was the case, we'd be seeing examples of players escaping the Warrington coaching environment and then going on to bigger and better things elsewhere. Brad Dwyer has done OK and won a Challenge Cup with Leeds but thats about it.

On the other hand, we've seen examples of other players who have joined us at a young age from other clubs, and have gone on to bigger and better things with us. Briers, Westwood, Bridge, Grix. If the problem was that the coaching at Warrington didn't allow young players to develop, how come those were all stars with us. What was the difference between them and the guys like Patton and the list Barbed Wire mentioned above?

The lack of progression of those mentioned, is mainly down to the obsession we have in filling the overseas quota spots, AND busting the bank to buy any big name "talent", when they become available, thus pushing them further down the pecking order.

Of the names mentioned, I'd wager only Patton, Riley and Penny (over 2 spells) were what you saw as regular starters. Maybe some more would've flourished, HAD they been given more game time, but we seem averse take the risk like Saints, Leeds or Wigan would. Some were just plain [inot good enough. [/i

Patton didn't flourish with 100+ games though.

So why haven't they been picked up by some of the better teams that don't fill their overseas quota spots and would have found space for them - surely they would have seen them as good value talent that could be picked up relatively cheaply.

Because, like I've just said, the better clubs have already taken a punt on THEIR OWN youngsters, AND, they've kept faith with them, going on to win multiple GFs.

Meanwhile, ours get about 10-20 games, and then get released..
Imagine 3 years ago, being an academy centre, or someone at the point of getting through to the first team, and we sign Burrell. Likewise a second rower, and we sign Mr Bland Clark.

I don't disagree, W71. Everyone could see by the end of 17, going into the 18 season, that Patton wasn't the answer. Yes, we got to 2 finals in 18, but (imo) that was despite Patton, NOT because of him.

Patton got 100+ games, Livett close on 50, Rhys Evans 105

Thats more than an opportunity thats a significant portion of a career.

I think the most likely explanation for them moving on, and where they find themselves now, is that they are not top quality SL players.

From memory, most of Livett's appearances were in a few game bursts, filling in for people, or subbing. Not a regular week in, week out starter. Never going to get any kind of consistency, flipfloping between SL and reserve team rugby.

Evans, I feel a pang of sorrow for. I REALLY did think there was a top rugby player in there. Just a pity that, if you even looked at him sternly, he'd get injured. He had a decent amount of pace, AND could finish. A real shame.

Patton's problem was simply that he lacked pace, not in his limbs, but between his ears. The best halves know what that they are going to do, what the opposition is not set for and who is the weak link two or three tackles before the ball is with them; Patton never had that, he gave the air of panic stations whenever he was in possession.

On the others, I agree with Lefty on Evans. He was a real prospect before injuries eroded his cutting edge. He was quick, brave, and could finish well.

This, until the Evans part. I never really saw anything in Rhys Evans, he started well and for a few games I thought he was impressive for an inexperienced young lad but unfortunately not too many games in he appeared very, very limited to me.

He had a spell where he came as a substitute hooker and looked OK. I think we then signed another reserve hooker and that opportunity for him disappeared. Not really quick enough, off the mark, to be a first choice half-back.

Morrisey's between his ears analysis is spot on re Patton as he had some talent just not enough for a top half and that split second decision making is key as it unsettles the opposition buys you and your team mates invaluable time.

I'm not for one minute saying that he's guaranteed to be a top half but that Lewis lad from KR seems to have it that and a bit of mongrel.

Livett's career seems to have continued the same way outside of Wire. He hasn't been able to lock himself down as an integral player even at smaller clubs.

Rhys Evans was definitely spoiled by injuries, and in his case, like Patton, we can't say it was due to a lack of opportunity. When he was fit TS had him as a starter, even when he was in the doghouse from fans. Although I think also Evans was subject to some overhype as a junior. We were always hearing lots of stories about the Evanses before they broke into the team and there were people on here saying he was a generational talent, going to be our fullback for the next decade or so. When young outside backs come into a dominant team they will get chances and look good (Rhys Williams, who was also quick, was another who scored tries regularly when he came through). Having said that, Evans did look pretty good in 2014 but once he started getting injuries in 2015 he was not the same.

There was a time after the departures of the old guard when TS seemed to be trying to transition the team towards younger players: I think around 2014/15, we had Matty Russell at FB and then Rhys Evans and Gene Ormsby on the wing, Gareth O'Brien was coming into the side more, and Currie and Laithwaite were playing in the second row. They all got a good crack, but only Currie took advantage of it. But also although fans on here always say we should give more chances to young players, I remember some of those players getting a lot of stick too.

Natural progression of his career.
He isn't super league standard consistantly, i think he will do well in the championship and could have a decent long career there.
All the best to him

Of the 3 I would have liked to have kept Livett. He's put in some awesome man of the match performances. Probably not enough of them to please Price.

Strange one Livett. I thought he could be the Currie equivalent for the right second row, he can run, dummy, pass, kick… he has all the tools.

It is just an issue with application I think.

Blimey it must be hard work being a player in the modern age.
Everyone has an opinion and a reason why you have not achieved.
Not a pop at you Barbed but I really do have sympathy for our players and coaches.

Ultimately, there are 2 reasons why things don’t happen. It’s either you can’t do it, or you won’t do it. There is evidence that he can complete the skills of the game, even against tough opposition (eg Saints and Leeds when playing for us). Age isn’t a factor, he’s in his prime years for speed, strength and aerobic capacity. So what is it?

What I would say, if he worked as hard as hard as some of the better professionals, there is no reason he couldn’t be an excellent player.