A theme of last year on here was how we had a beaten pack, needed some biff etc.

What do you think about it at this point?

For me, the pack is the main reason I have got limited expectations about this season, particularly the thin-looking front row.

From last year's struggling pack we have moved on Sims, Savelio, Julien, Westerman and Dwyer.

Adding BMM plus Currie coming back from injury gives us a stronger looking back row.

What's the front row going to be? Hill and Cooper with Crosby and Akauola coming off the bench? A few question marks there.

Overall I think we are 2 top class forwards away from being able to go in to the season with confidence that we can be competing in the top four.

Can’t argue with that. Weaker than we need but other teams don’t look THAT much stronger uk front thankfully. I crave for the pack from 2010-2013 though

Our squad is 3-4 players short
Of what we need to get into the
Top four two props for starters
Back row ok
With a few injuries which we will get
We are into young guys with little experience
And with question marks over
Toby king injuries and whether Crosby will play
Much of a part and the fact
Cooper has not improved
Only hope is smith stopped them from
Playing to their potential and they were
Not playing for him at all
Time will soon tell
First six games we will know
3 wins at best don't hope to high !

The problem our pack had last year, was that Smith brought in a dietician from football. He had them all eating small meals on a more frequent basis. The result of this was that all our forwards dropped weight like slimmers of the year. I know that two of our props lost over 10lb in weight each. This is no good in rugby and lead to us being bossed around on the majority of occasions. Thankfully the dietician has left and the players who remain are (so I'm told) are putting weight back on.

King and Philbin need to kick on this year, they have both had decent games, but never looked like keeping Westwood out of the team, which should be easy if were honest.

An unknown in Sita could work out, and BMM could play at loose who will add size and strength. Still at least one quality prop short, and a good reserve hooker missing from a good pack.

Ruddy EK.
Let's see after Leeds.

Still short in the pack for this season. An injury to Hill and we are stuffed.

Hill - hopefully back to his best.
Cooper - yet to show the form he did in Aus.
Crosby - Assuming he plays and plays as he did at Wigan 2 seasons ago he will be steady.
Akauola - Unknown.


King - Not a top 4 quality prop.
Philbin - Ditto.

King and Philbin up against forwards such as Amor, Walmsley, Taylor, Cuthbertson, Garbutt is like a no contest.

Amor was average at best last season ask most Saints fans!

I think Philbin has shown some good potential and with an enthusiastic coach at the helm, could really kick on and be an asset. I'm not too sure about King though. He's too much of a 'steady eddie for me.

Ideally I would of liked us to take a gamble on a big South sea islander to take us up to full cap. That said, I'm really excited to see Akuola play and have a feeling he could do really well for us.

On today's showing I think we've got problems. Salford pack bullied us for much of the game.Pat Moran and Luis Johnson are still young and lightweight. Big Ben was ok in spells but needs to up his work rate and Mike Cooper whilst enthusiastic doesn't seem to have the bulk or mongrel of a top class forward.

There is a line between enough size and fitness. It looks like we've found somewhere near that threshold.
Not quite physical enough to match it with Salford most of the 1St but smothered them out midway into the 2nd.
Fitness over size had it...
I would like to see a bit more grunt and I think that'll come from Sit Ak.
Salford were their own enemy but the structured defence may have helped too...it certainly did in the 2nd half with a nil.

I think there may be some games where we have to sit tight and have the nerve to leave it late.

Cooper may benefit from an intensive course on how catch the ball from a kick off and retain it in the tackle.

Cooper forced a crucial error in defence though, in his defence.

For me, that line describes the difference between Wigan’s grand final success at the expense of Warrington.

Any pack containing Jack Hughes......You've answered your own question

Hughes looked to start in the pack but switched to centre yesterday....
However Lefty, naughty naughty..
We've unofficially given everyone a clean slate for 2018.
No Hughes bashing until he deserves it.

I agree with lefty goldblatt
Talks a lot of sense
Don't be surprised how soon
Hughes dishes up the same rubbish
He won't be turning into a world beater anytime soon

Season hasn't started and Hughes is already the scapegoat.
He wasn't even the poorest that played in the friendly vs Salford either, if it counted.

I am not talking about Salford game
Last season he was consistent
In dishing up
Game after game of a very poor
Standard of play either off loading
Poor passing catching or general lack of effort in tackling to
Let's see if all that can go away

Season hasn't started yet, and the epithet [iscapegoat[/i has been used.

Hughes is not, repeat NOT, a scapegoat.
Hughes is simply not good enough, for where we want to be. The same goes for that plant pot on the wing, Russell. I'm fully aware we can't have a team full of stars, but Hughes' career plateaued after a decent start in Wire colours, since that plateau, it's regressed. Last season, he was a walking accident. Not good enough. He's at Widnes' level, now.
I'd rather promote a younger lad.
Harsh, maybe. But true.

We've already got a "near as damn it passenger" in Westwood for the upcoming season. We can't afford another.

Westwood is now at the level where Yaya Toure is at City. A legend for what he's done, but it's time to stop embarrassing yourself, and tarnishing your reputation.

Add to this, Crosby's form/state of mind, and Cooper's horrific 2017 season, I've a few worries for our pack, this season. I really hope I'm proved wrong.

I actually thought Hughes played better yesterday than we saw last season. Instead of dropping to his knees like a brick he made some metres. Tried a cheeky back pass to the wing as well, a try if it had come off.
Another thing i noticed yesterday was the warm up. Lets hope the play is different as well.

When Hughes came here, he was must better than Westerman. He was a very capable player...a player seldom just goes 'simply not good enough'!
The lad to his credit was ever present in 2017 and was shifted around over and over...
Perhaps this moving around unsettled him as it seemed to do with Ratchford even though he wouldn't say so.
TS coaching skills are now becoming a debate of question...
12 months ago, god forbid me opening my thoughts on him on here.
TS may have coached out that solid consistent game he had in is first 12 months here.

Give him a break while it's a new season.

Well said lefty totally agree
I would rather we blood youngsters or give livett plenty of game time cos he looks like he can develop in to a regular
If good enough old enough
The Pies put some good youngsters in
That have done well they not afraid to do that
Rather younger ones a chance than
Hughes and Westwood gettin too
Much game time

Are you still blind drunk?

So the season starts in a fortnight and the strongest starting line up available hasn't been tested....!

You back up lefty ripping the team ,then say we should blood youngsters and Livett which we actually did yesterday.

You need to drink a resolve pal.

Hughes is not centre but sacrificed his own game last year for the good for the team so it would seem. I am prepared to give him a clean slate and see how he goes in his preferred / better position is what is hopefully a better team effort this season coming.

Regarding 'grunt' BMM showed some yesterday as well as some real class with a couple of off loads one of which led tot a try. A great buy.
Coops put in a good shift but I would like to see him eat a couple of Welsh Oggies and beef up a touch

One of the pleasing aspects of yesterdays game was the defence. Yes we were not necessarily playing against the most dynamic attack we will see in 2018 but to concede only one try and a fortuitous one at that was a good effort. In attack we were missing possibly our two most creative players in Roberts and Patton so improvements to come there

Lot more optimistic for the season that at the same stage last year after the dreadful Huddersfield performance.