Well after the split at 23 rounds we find ourselves not fighting for Grand Final glory, but Super League survival.

The table has told us how good we have been , it says shocking and I agree with it.

Where did it all go wrong?

Where does the responsibility rest for what is the most calamitous season in my time supporting the Wire,

Club Management
Player management and coaches
Players
Speccies
Uncontrollables, injuries, suspensions, refs, etc

For me its player management/coaches, and the players jointly.


Just hoping the middle eight table doesn't tell us the same story

I believe an aluminium container from a meat & potato pie is the silverware for finishing top of the middle 8s.

Didn't realise there was a trophy for heading up the middle 8's.



Wonder who at our club would be to step forward to receive such an honour, head coach ?

I expect it would be the captain. It's a strange one this, I expect us to win it, but they had better not celebrate winning it.

I think we might need to pull our socks up a good bit for this competition against at least 6 teams who will be more desperate than us & who have previous experience of the comp. Every team will be off scratch & it will depend on who wants it most which is something we don't seem to have a good track record with.

This season has not come as a surprise to me.

Last season was the anomaly, we overachieved. Leeds imploded, Cas and Wigan had injuries and Hull dipped after the Challenege Cup win. It wasn't that we were so good. The two pervious seasons were more the level we've become.

This season is another knock-on effect of losing a proper consistent trophy challenging team and not replacing those that left with sufficient quality. What players are better in their positions now than any of: Hodgson JMonaghan MKing Hicks Bridge Myler Briers Solomona LAnderson Harrison Grix Westwood(of that time) Morley Carvell MMonaghan Higham? Only Daz Clark and Currie, and Hill and Ratchford (who were here with those players) are of comparable quality to those players. Maybe include Atkins (who was here with those players) and Westerman can get a shout too. But that's, what?, 6 players compared to a whole squad's worth.

Other than that we firmly have mid table quality players and a stale way of playing and therefore we finished in low midtable/high bottom of table. It's not a shock to me. It's just that the team above made us raise our expectations but we just aren't that good anymore.

The season has come as a surprise to so many. The bookies and the majority of rugby league pundits had us down for being at or very near to the top. Most thought that we had recruited well in the forwards. So it's a bit odd that we have so many on this forum appear to have seen this coming. Is it with the benefit of hindsight or is it that we have such unprecedented understanding of the game. It would be interesting to read pre-season and post Brisbane comments to see who was actually wise prior to our horrible season.

I suppose there was a Pro-Brown and Anti-Brown divide and considering he was brought in to replace the mercurial talent Sandow, he didn't have the same impact.

Coming in on a high transfer fee half way through pre season, everything seemed rushed.

Noticeable that the top 8 are largely not overseas coaches.
Jury out yet on Holbrook at Saints

It certainly surprised me, I don't think we were incredible last season but really thought we had strengthened for this season overall especially in the forwards.

Our forwards had been useful last year and I thought Cooper/Savelio/Crosby were much better than who we had let go. Sandow was a blow but I thought Brown was a good passer of a ball and we'd be OK.

We have missed having Crosby in the team this year. A lot of pressure has fallen on Hill and Philbin.

I think we've had too many players on key positions have been off a little or hampered by injury such as Brown, Crosby, Cooper, Westerman, Currie,. etc. The three quarter line hasn't been consistent at all but seem to have fixed that for next year. In reality we were only 6 points off the top four. I don't think we're as far off as people think.

I get what you are saying but cas aside all teams have been pretty poor this year, at least in spells. We're as many points off Leeds in second as they are off cas in first which I think says a lot. We should be looking at being 20 points off the pace, not 6. I also feel our performance levels have been miles further off being 6 points away from 4th, how many tries scored and conceded are we behind the leaders? We have been disrupted by injuries, no doubt, but if anyone at the club only views us as being 6 points off the pace I think that would be very complacent of them.

I agree with you and Mark if that's at all possible.

The rugby fare has been poor of that there is no doubt and we deserve to be where we are, but,IF we had somehow managed to even be in striking distance of 4th and ran into some kind of form and had our best 17 available or close to it, then this season, perhaps more than previous years in this format would have given us the biggest chance of a GF semi final place.

Not many writing Wigan off may be a reputation rather than form thing and they aren't much better than us.

The table doesn't lie but this year it's a funny old set up for teams aiming for that 3rd/4th spot...everyone bar Huddersfield?

We were carried by 2 props last season, the signing of Cooper and Crosby suggested the club had dealt with that major issue but too many other issues arose all at the same time. If (big word) the team had carried on like they did in the WCC it would have been a very different season. Why they didn't will continue to be the contentious issue.

One thing the table does lie about (or at least hides), is the subjective view of the quality of rugby.

A lay person could look at the table and think "wow what a competitive season - it's all to play for in the top8, and anyone can beat anyone".

In reality, it's not a case of anyone can beat anyone, it's a case of anyone can lose to anyone - and that's an important distinction.

Yes, we're only 6 points off the top 4, but a team with a 39% win rate should not be just 6 points from SF/GF qualification.

I don't really disagree to be honest, but I personally believe that we should be aiming much higher than 3 more wins than we've seen this season. I don't believe that with the performances and lack of any performance improvement for so long in the season we deserve to been in with a shout to be honest. Regardless of how optimistically we are looking at this situation, I think we all know that we need to see improvement and the sooner the better.

Another post that can agree with, we should be aiming higher and the table doesn't lie, but, an additional 4pts nuzzled between St Helens and Wigan 2 points off 4th wouldn't have been a seismic shift, it's been a barking mad season all round? An earlier post from Jimathay sums it up pretty well.

I think that this week's CC games should be as interesting as ever from the POV of impact on final league placings particularly the one at our place.

Ah well hope the next table doesn't lie with us at the top of it.

there was a piece of unbridled Yorkshire Bias from Dave woods on the BBC site.
he was asking the question why has there been no "hullabaloo" about Cas being top at the end of the Regular season.

My first thought was well its not really the end of the regular season is it.... when ever has a season been 23 games long ?? even the half size centenary season was 20 games long.....we had this last season when Hull thought they should have been League Leaders....after 23 games.

The season is over after the super 8's They can be crowned league leaders then and have a Hullabaloo. And then they will have just one play off game to get into the Grand final....

my second thought was that the new structure and the split and its complete lack of knockout games doesn't create excitement... nothing changes in the Super 8's at best a shock may come by an away team beating a home team in the Semi. the positions havent changed in the last two years and they wont this year its full of dead rubbers.


But my final thought on his piece and the real actual truth of the matter about lack of Hullabaloo is the sheer lack of Quality in the league....this isn't a Caslteford team finding themselves back in 1999 trying to knock off Bradford Bulls or Saint Helens' finest ever teams jam packed with Internationals and future Legends of the game.

Are we to believe Paul Mcshane suddenly finds himself in with a shot of a World cup spot or that the slowest centre in the world Jake Webster is now finally world class, and Andy Lynch can now be spoke about with the Jamie Peacocks and Adrian Morleys of this world....

And are we to believe the Salary Cap has suddenly turned Salford from Relegation fodder to potential double winners in a season, and is Kris Welham finally a world class to rival Jake Webster?
and has it turned Wakey from Million pound game to the fringes of top four in two seasons.

the Table doesnt Lie but it doesnt quite tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

anyway Cas to beat Leeds in the GF
Salford to beat Hull in the Challenge cup

us to survive in superleague ...just....

Your point about the quality of SL is well made, which is at least one reason why so many on here are angry/frustrated/disappointed. Can't help feeling Cas are SL's answer to Leicester City

With a new coach & the horrors of early season behind them i can still imagine Saints stealing the show at Old Trafford.

I can see them being the main challengers to cas, if they get 4th and win the semi I could imagine a massive uproar about cas not even making the final. To be honest unless the wheels fall off massively in the next couple of months it would be wrong for anyone but cas to win it this year. Imagine that they finish the super 8's more than 10 points clear of second and then didn't even get to OT! I can see saints (or Wigan) being massive party poopers this autumn.

I disagree completely. If Cas can't beat Saints with home advantage when it really matters they don't deserve to be champions.

The history of RL is built on these end of season play-offs, and in the era before substitutes there will be many a hard luck story that would overshadow Cas's misfortune if it were to come to that.

I don't doubt your points but points difference between 1st and 4th this year could be huge which is why I feel it could be a bit of an injustice if things pan out that way, I am sure there would have been bigger injustices inthe history of rugby league but that doesn't make this potential case less pertinent.

For the record I have no problem with the playoffs, or this format in general, in fact this season would probably be pointless from now on if there weren't playoffs, cas would only need 2 more wins probably. There is a lot of rugby to play yet anyway so it's all ifs and buts at this stage. If cas collapse from now then they don't deserve to win it.