Is the right thing to be looking to get rid of Smith? I'd love to know what the split of reponsibility is with regards to coaching etc... but it seems, much like everywhere he has been, that Agar is absolutely poisonous to a club. Pretty much ever since his arrival, we have been on a slippery slope to dull, directionless attacking rugby. But even that all encompassing vision doesn't explain what is going on currently. Against Brisbane (all "its their first game" talk aside), we got a glimpse of what we still could be...an attractive, fluid team, that had desire, intensity, and the ability to play some fantastic off the cuff rugby league. How does that evaporate in the space of a month? We don't even seem to have the team knitting together any more, zero pride for the shirt or the line, zero passion, and absolutely zero direction. This team is capable, regardless of its inherent weaknesses, of competing, as has been shown. So what has changed? I'm not angry, I'm not calling for Smith out, I'm just thoroughly confused as to how we can have taken so many backward steps, with a team that is essentially the same as last year, in just over 4 weeks. I'm willing to give Brown, as rank average as he has looked, some bedding in time, but the nucleus of the team is the same as the one that reached a CC Final, Grand Final and won the LLS last year. We dont have Leeds excuse of losing the spine of a team, so what is it?

It was only a matter of time before Agar had the same impact at Warrington as he did Hull FC. Hull went from top 4 to bottom 2 in two years.

Totally agree as a fellow Hull FC fan watching Warrington this season particularly is so reminiscent of watching us under the 'Agar Affect' from Grand finalists to bottom two with him involved. Whether assistant or Head Coach he was a big part of the downward spiral and the similarities watching Warrington are scary.

Smith is a good coach and has proven that, his mistake is having Agar (Mr Fubar) as assistant as all he will do is assist on the demise of Warrington.

As a Hull fan I feel for you Warrington fans having experienced watching a team coached by Agar and totally devoid of ideas and demoralised. If you think I'm a Hull fan talking bollards just ask the opinion of any Hull or Wakey fan on the Agar affect.

Did Agar not have any influence in getting us to within 10 points of winning everything last year? or is it just this year he's responsible for?

This is what is puzzling me. If I look at the "isolated" success (if that's even a term) it doesn't make sense, but our steady ruining has coincided with his arrival. Is it other factors? Is it just a coincidence?

I honestly think we're a team with zero confidence.

Catalan - Loads missing in key areas, granted that all teams have players missing but for the first game we were very short. We battled for majority of the game
Brisbane - Great performance throughout
Cas - Started strong but looked tired, got blitzed in a 5 minute period and struggled for rest of the game, battled back but fell short.
Salford - Flat out bad performance but seriously damaged confidence
Wigan - Awful performance, the lack of confidence and cohesion was obvious
Leigh - Unforced errors allover the place but I feel we were string defensively.

I honestly don't think we're too far away.

Terrifying. Are you Tony Smith? The only thing missing is blaming luck. Writing was on the wall pre-season. Players don't want to play for the current setup.

Did they want to 6 months ago then?

Blind loyalty to Smith with some of my Warrington mates


Wire win - Tony smith is God!

Wire lose - Agar out!

We as Hull FC were Grand Finalists in the early stages of Agars association with our club. It all went badly after that and Agar was at the root of that demise both as an assistant and then Head Coach.

He was truly clueless and we had players who looked beaten before the game had started. Like I say ask any Hull or Wakey what they think if Agar and the affect he had on a club.

Get rid of Smith at your peril as god help you if Agar gets the job.

Most (not all) but clearly something has changed. Pre-season was clearly a disaster. Smith has form for falling out with players - the list is endless so it isn't exactly a surprise. Clearly the players are fed up of him and his coaching setup.

Name some players of this endless list? I'm sure you will have links to prove it as well with there being so many.

ridiculous isnt it.

I believe this has already been done for me in another thread but for starters:
Wood
Higham
Monaghan (j)
Hodgson
Carvell
Penny
Lineham

And they are just a few done in public. Rumours about cliques in the club have been around a while. Open your eyes something clearly stinks.

Hill said last night we were "miles off".

Your refer to our Challenge Cup Final loss in support of your argument. Do you recall that was the culmination of 3 wins Oldham, Widnes and Wakefield?

and yet if we had won the CC a lot of fans would have put the season down as a success yet finish top of a league structure after 30 games is completely worthless

I'm firmly in the 'Time for Smith to move on' camp.

HOWEVER.

There is no point sacking him until we have a world class replacement ready to step in. Who is there? People crying out for Powell need to give their head a wobble, he's won sod all an all and even if he was a winner he's hardly going to walk out on Cas this season with the rugby he's got them playing. Agar should walk the plank if smith is going an all and Briersy isn't ready... Right now there is no one.

Jib Agar off. He's deadwood we can't afford to be carrying and it'll send a message out. Make Briers first assistant.

Had we won the CC, I would have said that was a success.

That is rightly or wrongly what the definition of success is, in the competitions we compete in.

We can comfort ourselves with the fact we've been the "best" team in the competition on a couple of occasions with the LLS, but success is GF and CC wins.

Walk away as losing finalists in the two main competitions that count, great to be there, better than those that only made it to the semis. But success? No.

Win one or both? Of course that's a success.

Mind you, the prospect of Lee Briers being responsible for training does make me pause for thought

So, do we just keep on losing game after game with a disgruntled set of players, whom the coach appears to have lost.... All because there isnt a world class replacement to take over immediately?

or do we make a change, try and lift the morale of the players and the fans and go again, in an attempt to not end up in the million pound game.

I dont care who it is, but we need change. Even its if temporary until the end of the season. These players need another leader before its too late.

I've been laughed at and told I don't know what I'm going on about but I'd give Agar the chop. He has a loosing mentality and that mentality spreads. I think that would be enough to make players sit up and think "bloody hell, we better buck our ideas up." If not then give Smith a golden handshake and say taraa.

I'd be reluctant to give smith the boot first. Lets see what would happen with Briers as his No.2 first.

Iestyn Harris talks a lot of sense on the radio and seems to know where our problems are.

Could bring Kevin Ellis and Clive Griffiths with him who he worked with in the Wales job.

club legend as well.. adored by the fans... bring him home.

like you say we need a temporary lift - Harris could come in and start us dreaming of great things to come before he moved on to replace McDermott at Leeds