A question for us all, given that Leeds finished 5th and in the regular season did not beat any of the top 4. Is it right that the History Books will now show Leeds Rhinos as Super League Champions 2011.

Have a think before you post, is it really for the good of our game that a team that won their final three games of a 30 game season are called Champions of Super League. I post a genuine question asking is it for the good of our great game that the fifth placed team are now called Champions 2011.

P.S. I have already posted my congrats to Leeds on their board.

BBC News (sportsdesk) have just been more than a bit "nasty" about our play-off set-up.
The woman overdub might as well have said it's a farce

Yes it captured interest in the Grand Final. In 2009 my feelings on another Leeds v Saints final were 'meh...seen it all before' but this year it felt unexpected and was good for the game IMO.

In a competition you are set down the rules of the competition at the start and then you have to play to those rules...you could say is it fair that a team dominates possession and is ahead for 60 minutes of the game then the other team comes back in the final quarter and wins - is it right? yes.

Was it right that New York Giants beat New England Patriots in the Super Bowl a few years back when the Patriots had gone through the year unbeaten?

Was it right that NZ Warriors were in this year's NRL Grand Final instead of Melbourne Storm, when the Warriors finished 6th (supposedly 'a great shot in the arm for league in NZ' as I've been reading in recent weeks.

Really we should stop whinging about this there have been threads about it all week and to dredge up old ground again, we're going to get laughed at by other fans, this will become the thing we can't let go of especially if we end up dropping off form next year without Matt King and with players getting older, we could end up spending the next 20 years not being able to let go of this season whinging about "2011 was OUR YEAR you know!"

Alternatively we could have a dismal season with people questioning if Tony Smith has taken us as far as he can, sneak into the playoffs in 6th or 7th place next year, then Briers, Morley, Monaghan and the others in last chance saloon rallying together to a great playoff run against the odds and winning the Grand Final.

pmsl at sallys avatar

Yes, it's completely right.

When it mattered, they beat the league winners & the third and fourth placed sides in knockout rugby. They (like we do) play rugby in the right way, and more than merit their victory today. They coped with the format best, is the current format correct? I'm not sure but this shouldn't discredit Leeds whole against low probablity odds delivered.

Tonight was the best game of RL I've seen this year, I thought Leeds were superb.

it was an amazing game.... i loved every minute of it.

I wouldn't go as far as that, its the best wet weather game ive seen. Leeds were solid in the first half with some very good defence along with the Burrow piece of magic, they only came to life as an attacking force after saints had lost both Wellens and Shenton. It was the Shenton injury that changed the game, that caused Saints a lot of disruption in having to move players around to fill the void left by both Wellens and Shenton.

At the point Shenton left Leeds looked beaten, they were behind by 8pts and looked devoid of ideas and some of their players heads had visibly dropped. Saints had all the momentum at that point, Leeds had only managed to cross the saints line just once up and till the point Shenton had left the pitch. It was too much dispruption for Saints after that, Leeds capitalised on it and the rest is history.

the shenton injury ruined saints.... that side of the pitch capitulated when he went off.... leeds targeted the weak spot to full effect.

I'd go with most of what Rob says. It was an excellent wet weather game and i really thought that the final score flattered Leeds by about 10 points.

Spot on! .... They had already had to reshuffle the team when they lost Wellens, they had to do it again when they lost Shenton. Too much disruption at a key time in the game, they were carrying other injuries as well and were down to just 2 bench rotations left with 15 mins still to go.

If they'd had no injuries do you think they'd have won?. They'd been outplayed at half time.

i think leeds would have won anyway.....they wanted it more....f*ck the injuries..... its rugby league.....

Without a doubt.

RL isn't a 40 min game tho, Leeds played well in the first half and defended really well but to me that effort started to take its toll in the 2nd half. Leeds looked out on their feet once Saints got into their rhythm and got on a roll, with around 20 mins to go their only looked like one side was going to win that game and it wasn't Leeds.

Leeds won the competition based on the format that everyone knew before the season started. Congratulations and fair play to them.

But as I put in a thread earlier this week, there is a flaw in the format of a competition when it is possible for one team to win 29 games on the run, lose the 30th and win nothing. Another can lose more than they win over the first 27 games then win their last four and be proclaimed champions.

You know what Rob, I don't think you're giving Leeds enough credit, I really don't.

Any team that can take 6 sets back to back, I think it must have been 6/7 minutes without the ball, then fall 8 points behind on the scoreboard soon after and still have the physical & mental strength to come back and score 20+ points in poor handling conditions.

I thought it was a special effort, and they did it with a swagger jagger.

Here is my view:

Roby and graham weren't enough to win this game. (If I recall leeds had a field day after graham was rested, towards the end.

Leeds had the mental toughness that saints just don't have these days. It use to be that you'd never write off the saints. I think six losses on the bounce has shaken the 'mighty' saints.

This was further shown (and the kuilling blow) was foster's penalty from half way. I remember when asked in the pub, after saints went a try ahead, if saints had now won it; and I said if they score again, it looks like it. Eight compared to twelve is nothing and they should have pushed for another try.

Leeds deserved the score they got. Hardy and ruthless in defence and free flowing in attack (very wireesque)

On the question of is it right? Yes, leeds played the system best, obviously. Is the system right is another question entirely!

Leeds played at a level that no team reached during the season. No other games were at the intensity of the Wire-Leeds eliminator or the GF throughout any of anyone's 27 games and Leeds showed that they could deal with and perform under that intensity in both games. If you can prove you can win them games then you prove that you can perform at a higher level to everyone else.

Week-in-week-out over 27 games and 7 months you are rewarded for consistency on were you finish in the league table and if you finsih top you win a shield. But the play-offs raise the bar (well, certainly the later rounds). It's not about 'playing well for three games at the end of the season' as so many have posted recently, it's about playing at a higher level and proving yourselves at that level.

We were the most consistent team over 27 games, we played at a higher level than everyone else over them 27 games, we were the best team over them 27 games; but we didn't put in a performance when the level of quality and intensity rose to a level not seen during them 27 games.


I think more fuss should be made when you finish as league leaders - a lot more. But I also agree that if you can come through the P-O's and win you've proved that you can go above and beyond consistency and win in the highest level of quality and intensity.

I'm racking my brain to think of sports where you're not rewarded in this way and said to be the best. F1 is the only one I can think of where you're just rewarded for consistency. Football does in domestic league form but then there are two cup compeitions and European competitions too which are all decided in a end of season showpiece event. Even then in the league - as a footy fan myself - I'm often saying "you're not pitted against the same teams, with the same injuries and suspensions, in the same run of form, with the same weather conditions, or the same time of day/year, nor the same referee". And that's true. You can finish higher than another team in the league but you haven't played the same games, you've played 27 very different games to each other (well apart from two against each other).

Leeds have finished top of the league, and won the Grand Final
Leeds have finished 2nd and won the Grand Final
Leeds have finished 5th and won the Grand Final

Each team they were rightly declared Champions.

Time to accept Leeds Rhinos ARE Super League Champions 2011, and move on.

....as has the vast majority of Wire fans. I already posted my congrats on the VT. I think it's reasonable to (1) debate the format of the playoffs and (2) seek greater recognition for the League Leaders, but the GF system is a fine way to end the season and decide the champions.

-------------that may be true,but saying it dont make it right does it?i mean,what other sport can boast *champions* who finished runners up in a cup final then went on to finish 5th,yup,5th in the league ,then put together a run of 4,yup,4 wins and be hailed as champions? not many im sure,and its not sour grapes,it seems to make rugby league a joke sport,which makes me very angry,as i think its the best game it the world to watch,but the format of late is a joke,im sick of trying to explain it to all my non rugby league mates ,who keep asking me ,why wire are not champions if they actually won superleague,and yes,we all know the format at the start of the season and its the same for all teams blah blah blah,but like i say,saying it dont make it right,especially when your team has blown away the opposition week in and week out and a regular basis by playing fantastic entertaining rugby,in my mind,wire are the true champions of 2011

,and hopefully,20012

and im not taking anything away from leeds by saying this--( the lucky barstewards



) its just my opinion

This is the format everyone knew about at the beginning of the season so knowone can say leeds dont deserve it they played fantastic rugby at the business end of the season. I just think this is a realy good advert for our game this season at least in the top 8 has beenone of the most competitive i have seen since super league started proven by the fact that silverware has been shared amongst the 3 clubs and even more proven by the clubs that won the league leaders shield and the challenge cup werent contesting in the final . Super season heres to many more like it competitive rugby is what we all want to see im sure ??

I'm a Leeds fan.

In my opinion, the team that wins the league should be the champions and that was Warrington, end of story.

There then should be a play off grand final but if you win this should not mean you are champions. This way, there would be three major trophy to go at, the Challenge Cup, The league and the Play off Grand Final.

Unfortunatly, it will be Leeds who go down in the history books as as winners, champions, it will be Leeds who are playing in the WCC and nobody will remember who came first, second, third or fourth in the league.

I am ecstatic that we won but there needs to be a change in the current format for me but that's the way it is unfortunatly, everyone knows that that at the start of the season, maybe in the comming seasons, there maybe should be an emphasis on not winning the league, resting some players during the year, keeping people fresh and aiming to peak around the play offs so it would be irrelevent whoever finished first, second, third, fourth, fith etc, just get in the play offs and anything can happen.

I am sure most teams would waifer a few games during the season but come good in the play offs.

All in all Wire fans, you've had a great season, you have been the best team, the league table does not lie and this bodes well for the comming years, all the best for next seaon!!!

Which other sport can see teams that don't top their league become Champions?

NFL, NBA, Baseball, Champions League Football, World Cup Football, Aussie Rules, Ice Hockey, Rugby Union...

--raelly? i dont watch any of those sports

so i will take your word for it,but im only really concered about rugby league and i stand by what i said