Now forgive me if im wrong just got in from a few beers seen the second half of the stains game WTF wheres eastmond, wellens couldn't hit a barn door with a dead cat, I think rather than us droppimg a level stains overachieve against us because what I saw of the performance tonight was absolute e if they had played like that last week we'd have scored 40, and even more amazingly they had a 9 - 2 penalty count in their favour I f****n despair bad results all round tonight.

We could have really done with Salford beating Cas, that's what's knocked us out the 8

Got to agree, it seems Saints lift their game when they play us

Or we can`t lift our defence to the levels needed to beat St Helens, i thought Wakefield defended very well tonight and they forced saints into a few errors, granted the conditions contributed to some of the saints errors.

We never defend well enough to beat saints, quite a lot of the time we are conceding over 30 and 40pts to them, that won`t win you many games at any level.

It would also have been very close had we not kicked any goals last week.

Come off it Rob, Saints were ten gears behind what they were last week.

Whats that got to do with anything ? Your only as good as your opponents let you play, saints are used to walking over and through teams and Wakefield stood up to them tonight with some good defence. Even Roby didn`t get the usual space that we hand to him on a plate, Wakefield knew how to slow saints down and how to play them at the marker which is something we have failed to grasp over the years and even you can`t argue against that.

I can guarentee you that if St Helens were 20 gears worse than their previous weeks performance against us then we would still probably lose to them, saints havn`t been great against us all the time when they have beat us on this amazing run of us failing to beat them, we have lost to average saints performances as well.

just said the old fella, that saints, it would appear, do raise their game against us, contrary to popular belief.....

It's got to do with it because you're saying that "our defence can't lift to the levels" needed to beat Saints, well it's easier to lift to what Saints threw at Wakefield tonight, than what came last week. I'll reitterate, Saints were gears below tonight. The lack of runners & options for the ball carrier was most un Saints like.

If they'd rocked up with that last week, we'd have won.

Ok we would have won last week, we would have beat St Helens if that makes you feel better.

This is Warrington we are talking about, we dig deep to find ways of losing against saints even when we look we are in control of a game, they have not always played great rugby against us and we have still found ways to lose.

Old regimes maybe. This regime, no way.

We find ways to win games that we have no right to win, see pretty much the last two months.

Saints suffered tonight from a variety of things, weather, injuries, perhaps a touch of hangover from last week, obviously lack of kicker being the main one, or they'd have still had enough for this quite brilliant Wakefield defence that you tell me of that shipped five tries in woeful conditions.

How disrespectful If we beat Saints and anyone was on here claiming they were below par there would be outrage from the likes of you.

I must've been watching a different game, because Saints had brilliant attacking structure and were hitting - or attempting to hit - second phase plays nearly every set of six they had.

I watched it ace, it's not about disrespect. If Warrington beat Saints u'15s I'd celebrate that.

My point was more to Rob, who seems to think that we aren't good enough to beat them, or certainly that we can't defend well enough to beat them, which I think is wide of the mark.

You put the two performances side by side, forget all the factors, which we know of, conditions, injuries etc. You show the footage of both games, and then ask folk to make an honest assesment, right. I reckon, If Saints were say 8/10 against us last week, Fair ? They weren't at their brilliant best, but they were good. Tonight, 5/10 ? That's no detriment to Wakefield, I;m just pointing out that had we got them at 5/10 last week, I'm convinced we'd have won, I'm not d about the past. W

Mate, the amount of times they got trapped on the last. The amount of times I watched Cunningham wander across field looking for a drop off that wasn't there. They just weren't on it. The only threat they had all night was that sort of 'wrap around play' where they sneak Pryce behind the line, and he creates doubt, either for himself, or delays the pass for a fringe attacker.

maybe saints are suffering the aftermath of playing us??

I think so, It wouldn't surprise me if we're a little flat come Sunday.

FWIW, I think Rob makes a decent point about marker play. If Wakefield did anything tonight that we can learn from it's that they controlled the ruck better.

All this said, with a kicker, kicking like Eastmond did last week, they'd have still conceded 30 odd points.

Your point about saints having an hangover from last week holds no water, its Wakefield that had the biggest hangover from last week after being 8pts in front of the super league champions with just 3 minutes left and then losing the game right on the hooter, that would have destroyed most teams confidence, saints won last week so confidence will have been high compared to what Wakefield had done to them.

They would have been physically and mentally drained after that effort last week against Leeds, their effort to slow down saints on the floor tonight was immense, at times they pushed it a little but thats what you need to do against saints to stop them getting a roll on.

They also lost Leo Latu early in the game and had a couple of other walking wounded.

Anyway ive made my points, i`ll let you lot battle it out from here on in.

wakey defended well tonight and all credit to them also with a penalty count something like 9-2 against them i think it said. add to that the conditions.

we had saints rockin for 60 mins in a very physical game thay oviously came through it worse for wear. look at wellens.

i didnt say thay have a hangover from playing us. just maybe there worse for wear after a very tough game.

We lost because we didn't convert any of our tries. We scored one more try than Wakey. We didn't play especially well because we didn't have a leader on the park. James Graham stood up to the plate against you last week but no-one took on the role this week. Eastmond had mumps, which is why he didn't play, and Wheeler is out injured for a month thanks to that try saving tackle of his last week. Our remaining goal kicker was Lomax, who played (although he went off injured), but for some reason Potter decided Wellens was the kicker. Only clearly no-one told him what every Saints fan has known all along: Wellens can't kick!

We always want to beat Wire. Matches against Wire are one of the best of our season. They are the ones I look forward to most, with Leeds a close second because I hate Leeds and so beating them is a must.

thought Saints were almost as good tonight in all areas except goal kicking which was crucial. Look at some of our trys against Saints, some were good but a few were shockers with 3 or 4 missed tackles. Thats not typical good Saints defence.

Its simple Saints clearly step up there game when they play us we can't that win over them and none of there players want to be in the team that loses to us.

It's their cup final.

More like the other way round unfortunately. Their cup final is usually at Wembley or Old Trafford.

Lets not take anything away from Wakefield, great performance all round, although i think if saints had a decent kicker playing they would have won