This doesn't seem to affect the youth development at Wigan or Leeds. Nah I think the problem is specific to Warrington.

It would be quite telling to list the output of Wigan, Leeds and Saints during that 25 years by means of comparison.

Here are just some of Wigan's.

Kris Radlinski, Simon Haughton, Sean Long, Andy Johnson, Darryl Cardiss, Paul Johnson, Rob Smyth, Jon Clarke, Lee Gilmour, Stephen Wild, Luke Robinson, Shaun Briscoe, Sean O'Loughlin, Kevin Brown, Gareth Hock, Harrison Hansen, Paul Prescott, Bryn Hargreaves, Darrell Goulding, Joel Tomkins, Mike McIlorum, Lee Mossop, Sam Tomkins, Josh Charnley, Liam Farrell, Stefan Marsh, Jack Hughes, Joe Mellor, Dom Crosby, Sam Powell, Matt Russell, Logan Tomkins, Joe Burgess, Ryan Hampshire, Dominic Manfredi, Lewis Tierney, George Williams, Ryan Sutton, Oliver Gildart, Tom Davies, Liam Marshall.

Good discussion so far. There are lots of issues.
My observations are based on experience a while back so be out of date (I hope they are) but are that:-

Warrington sign players based very strongly on physique and fitness. If you are not going to be 6'3" and 15 stone they are not interested. Kyle Eastmond and Joe Mellor are two players who could have been at the club. Often they seem to sign players who are early maturers and have peaked already. Players are signed for achievement not potential. (Sam Tomkins at 15 had two Warrington based players ahead of him at county level but was still growing up - and maybe one day will

)

They don't build enough skills. Lots of weights. Lots of fitness. (Easy to coach) But no large scale skills development. Targets are set for fitness, body fat, weights lifted, miles run but not for skills

Academy games are seen as about winning rather than a chance to build your game and your skills. Players look no different at 18 than at 15 - same flaws, same qualities - maybe this flows through to first team too. I think players learn to hide weaknesses rather than correct them

Players are signed who (generally) want to play rugby - they then get to play no games for a year or two are excluded from playing amateur rugby or even 5 a side with their mates. If you have hopes of playing rugby and don't play, you fall out of love with the game. Most who don't get a contract at the end of their academy time never play rugby again. Most are not Warrington supporters now

The club behave as if they own the players. Social life scrutinised, Club activities take priority. You must train every week and extras are encouraged. And for £60 a week. With a 10% chance of success. Work a day a week at Tesco or an evening in a bar and the lifestyle is better.

Players from outside the area get better deals to attract them to Warrington. They are not necessarily better players but Warrington assume that locals will be loyal.

If/once you get to first team, no one pushes your development - you are there to do a job and you do it and you stay - you don't and you are out. Academy coaches have done their job and first team coaches have a product to fill a gap. There is little support for getting the player to a higher level.

Just a thought or two.....

M

Well the club must have identified this as a problem and recruited Peter Riding, from Castleford, as Head of Youth. But I am confused with who is in charge of what here. https://warringtonwolves.com/performance-team/ We have a Head of Performance, then a Performance Manager. A head of youth, then 6 assistant u16 coaches. Jobs for the boys in 3 positions. Please tell me it's not Gary Chambers and his dad teaching u16 back play. The Wigan setup is very different with separate Performance and Rugby departments. They have Sean O'Loughlin (current international, club captain, multiple GF and CC, WCC winning club legend) working with the U19s.

Well the club must have identified this as a problem and recruited Peter Riding, from Castleford, as Head of Youth. But I am confused with who is in charge of what here. https://warringtonwolves.com/performance-team/ We have a Head of Performance, then a Performance Manager. A head of youth, then 6 assistant u16 coaches. Jobs for the boys in 3 positions. Please tell me it's not Gary Chambers and his dad teaching u16 back play. The Wigan setup is very different with separate Performance and Rugby departments. They have Sean O'Loughlin (current international, club captain, multiple GF and CC, WCC winning club legend) working with the U19s.

A real area of concern. Hopefully an area Price will be looking at.
Out of curiosity I wonder if young players look at that list and think they will have a better chance of being nurtured and developed elsewhere? Ben Currie being an exception.

Yes the young players must do that. If you had academy offers from Wigan, Salford and Warrington - where would you think you have the best opportunity to become a top player?

What is Salfords record like? Ratchford? Myler?

Myler came from Widnes .... replace with Théo Fages, Jordan Turner & Marc Sneyd

As soon as I posted it I realised there was only 1 place Myler could've come from!

niall evalds, the walne brothers.

Niall Evalds would be one of the first names on my carcass-scavenging list if Salford were to perish.

7 or 8 years ago you had an excellent Academy side, and were our (Wigan’s) main challengers. Seems to me your coaches are too reluctant to give the youngsters a chance at first team level, even if the established first teamers are off form.

A few interesting names in the England from 2011. Most of the Warrington players did make the grade.


2011 England Academy 38 man Squad

John Bateman (Bradford Bulls)
Michael Bishay (Harlequins RL)
Daniel Bridge (Wigan Warriors)
Alex Brown (Widnes Vikings)
Greg Burke (Wigan Warriors)
Liam Carberry (Wigan Warriors)
Jordan Chase (St Helens)
Daryl Clark (Castleford Tigers)
Jack Cockerham (Bradford Bulls)
Ben Crookes (Hull FC)
Ben Currie (Warrington Wolves)
Ben Evans (Warrington Wolves)
Rhys Evans (Warrington Wolves)
Thomas Gilmore (Widnes Vikings)
Bobbie Goulding (Warrington Wolves)
Robert Hawthorne (Bradford Bulls)
Daniel Jones (St Helens)
Josh Jones (St Helens)
Reece Lyne (Hull FC)
Liam McAvoy (Bradford Bulls)
Andrew Morris (Salford City Reds)
Adam O’Brien (Bradford Bulls)
Gene Ormsby (Warrington Wolves)
Jack Owens (Widnes Vikings)
Jay Rossi (Whitehaven RL)
Matthew Russell (Wigan Warriors)
Liam Salter (Hull KR)
Daniel Sarginson (Harlequins RL)
Declan Sephton-Hulme (Widnes Vikings)
Ryan Shaw (Warrington Wolves)
Louis Sheriff (Hull KR)
Brad Singleton (Leeds Rhinos)
Daniel Smith (Leeds Rhinos)
Jared Stewart (Leeds Rhinos)
Chris Taylor (Wigan Warriors)
Steve Ward (Leeds Rhinos)
Greg Wilde (St Helens)
Daniel Yates (St Helens)

That year goes against all the arguments in the thread that we can not produce talent. When you look at the 1st team appearances of the players at Saints, Wigan and Warrington I think we come out on top. Yes you can argue that apart from Currie non are world beaters, but it does prove that players are coming through and playing first team at Super League or Championship.

Only 1 from Warrington to make the grade.

The 2013 squads in full are:

England Academy 24-man squad (Professional and community clubs)

Alex Mellor (Bradford Bulls, Castleford Panthers)

Bobby Tyson Wilson (Hull FC, West Hull)

Curtis Naughton (Bradford Bulls, Dewsbury Celtic)

Edwin Okanga Ajwang (Salford City Reds, Siddal)

Elliott Morris (Huddersfield Giants, Meltham)

George Williams (Wigan Warriors, Ince Rose Bridge)

Greg Richards (St Helens, Barrow Island)

Jack Miller (Huddersfield Giants, Smallthorne Panthers)

Jake Connor (Huddersfield Giants, Siddal)

Joe Burgess (Wigan Warriors, Ince Rose Bridge)

Jordan Baldwinson (Leeds Rhinos, Hunslet Warriors)

Jordan Burns (Warrington Wolves, Kells ARLFC)

Jordan Harper (Leeds Rhinos, Normanton Knights)

Josh Casey (Bradford Bulls, Siddal)

Lewis Tierney (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Pats)

Liam Sutcliffe (Leeds Rhinos, Hunslet Warriors)

Luke Thompson (St Helens, Pilkington Recs)

Nathan Conroy (Bradford Bulls, Bradford Dudley Hill)

Oliver Roberts (Bradford Bulls, Siddal)

Rob Lever (Wigan Warriors, Pilkington Recs)

Rob Mulhern (Leeds Rhinos, Castleford Panthers)

Ryan Hampshire (Wigan Warriors, Normanton Knights)

Ryan Sutton (Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Pats)

Tom Walker (Warrington Wolves, Broughton Red Rose)

England Youth 31-man squad (Professional and community clubs)

Aaron Smith (St Helens, Blackbrook)

Ash Goulding (Leeds Rhinos, Stanningley)

Brad Harrison (Hull FC, Skirlaugh Bulls)

Brad Parker (Hull FC, East Hull)

Charlie Pythian (Warrington Wolves, Latchford Albion)

Daniel Douglas (Leeds Rhinos, Drighlington)

Frazer Morris (Huddersfield Giants, St Josephs Sharks)

Harry Tyson Wilson (Hull FC, West Hull)

Harvey Livett (Warrington Wolves, Rylands Sharks)

Issac Noi (Wigan Warriors, Ince Rose Bridge)

Jack Etchells (Wigan Warriors, Oldham St Annes)

Jack Rush (Wigan Warriors, Rochdale Mayfield)

Jack Wells (Wigan Warriors, Folly Lane)

Jacob Ware (Leeds Rhinos, Westgate Wolves)

Jake Campbell (St Helens, Blackbrook)

Jake Moore (Wigan Warriors, Wath Brow Hornets)

James Brown (Castleford Tigers, Castleford Lock Lane)

Jordan Crowther (Wakefield Trinity Wildcats, Westgate Wolves)

Jordan Lane (Hull FC, West Hull)

Kameron Pearce Paul (London Broncos, Croydon Hurricanes)

Lewis Fairhurst (St Helens, Hindley)

Liam Cooper (St Helens, Blackbrook)

Liam Johnson (Huddersfield Giants, Newsome Panthers)

Max Jowitt (Wakefield Trinity Wildcats, Stanley Rangers)

Morgan Smith (Leeds Rhinos, Normanton Knights)

Reece Brunt (Warrington Wolves, Latchford Albion)

Roshane Johnson (London Broncos, Medway Dragons)

Ryan Haughton (Wigan Warriors, Blackbrook)

Ryan Ince (Widnes Vikings, Widnes Moorfield)

Sam Hallas (Leeds Rhinos, Stanningley)

Will Gledhill (Huddersfield Giants, Wakefield Westgate)

Are you looking at the same list as me?

Ben Evans (Warrington Wolves)
Rhys Evans (Warrington Wolves)
Bobbie Goulding (Warrington Wolves)
Gene Ormsby (Warrington Wolves)
Ryan Shaw (Warrington Wolves)

Ben Currie (Wigan product)

Sorry could have sworn I have seen them all play first team at either Warrington or Hull KR except Goulding or is it a different set of Evans twins and Ormsby ??

I’m not sure that England squad accurately represents the 2011 talent around the clubs.

From memory, we had Sam Powell, Jack Hughes, Joe Mellor, Dom Crosby, Logan Tomkins, Stefan Marsh, and probably some I’ve missed, in the side that narrowly beat you in the academy GF.

Not international standard, mostly, I admit, but still doing well in SL 7 years later.

This is what I meant at the start by mediocrity. Warrington produce players from the Academy that play first team for a while then get moved on and for us this is evidence of the Academy's success.

Look at Wigan, Leeds and Saints academy - these clubs produce players who are internationals, have successful NRL careers, or are able to play central roles in Grand Final winning teams.

No it's me that needs to apologise. I thought you were using that list as some type of 'evidence' that our academy is fit for purpose in producing quality SL players. But I see now you mean players that will end up in the championship or no longer playing.

Two ex Wire academy players on show tonight. Ryan Shaw and Kruise Leeming. Both look quite promising.

never realised leeming was ex wire

Kruise? Loving Kruise?
I bet the vicar was made up, baptising him.
Was Chardonnay-Boo being done at the same time?