Or before the Wakey game.

How can it go further back? It’s been going on for almost 20 games give or take the odd win. Saying it worked in game one and two this season is like saying ‘well it worked in the cup final’, when we were garbage either side of it.

Can’t help but think you’re giving Steve Price and a group of players who have clearly under delivered for far too long, far too much credit here.

It didn’t go on preseason 2020 for the games vs Pies and Saints.
So nothing before that counts.

How can you say it doesn't count?

If you run a business and towards the FY end sales show a sharp decline, you make no real major changes, and then the first month of the next FY things improve briefly only to then return to the same decline immediately after, you don't put it down as a blip, clearly something is majorly wrong with the product or service. Same here. There is a problem stemming from 2019 and it's continuing in 2020. Change is needed and quick. It feels like confidence in the hierarchy is lost, and once that is lost you've had it.

On the whole we have been awful on the field since June 2019. Our team only decided to pull their collective fingers out and defend for 80 minutes against Hull at Bolton and Saints at Wembley (2019), then Wigan and Saints (2020). Our current situation stems from not addressing the attitude (especially of the pack) since then (June 19). Our troubles have not just started since Gelling's suspension.

Doesn't count only because you say so?

Six wins in 19 Super League matches.

Scoring an average of 16 points per game in that time.

Not won away since July.

Poor attitude, devoid of any ideas in attack, lack of flair, clunky, lack of discipline and an over reliance on two ageing and over used props. All relevant to last year, all relevant to this year.

Our deficiencies on the field this season and the fact we’re the third lowest points scorers in the league has nothing to do with Gelling and nothing to do with Hill’s sending off.

It’s poor coaching, it’s poor tactics, players with a bad attitude and a coach devoid of any attacking nous whatsoever.

I don’t get why you want to add on last seasons results. They have no bearing on what preparation was done in close season for 2020.
Did you think after Pies and Saints...we were in the form as where we left off in 2019?

Er yes.

Goodness me, have a nice cuppa, a jaffa cake and relax. I agree with you, I'm just hypothising that the sudden absence of Gelling, a popular and larger than life character, may be a factor.

Spot on the failure to rectify very poor performances against Salford were/are symptomatic of how bad things were and showed a complete lack of desire and effort by the team and coach to turn things around. That attitude seems to exist this season and needs to stop now

I stopped reading when you assumed a single Jaffa cake would help. Show me a bloke who can eat one, then feel no guilt at devouring the box...then I’ll read on.

So why are you calling for Price to go after only 2 bad losses? Give him a chance surely.

I actually think the team underperformed for the majority of last season and we are back where we were, the only realistic change we can make is to the coach and I’m now in the sooner the better camp. Holbrook at Saints shows the difference a coach can make to a team.

I have no argument about the continuation or resurrection of last seasons attitude, I cannot make a valid reason for or against that, but it is still very different to the preparation and ability that amassed during preseason and was on show for us all to see in round 1 and 2.

There are only 2 factors of current form, 1 preparation and 2 ability....well 3...that being opportunity, but that is part of the preparation, do your homework and you can actually creat most of those opportunities.

1 preparation:
what happened last week or even last season should have no bearing on the days game, unless game day preparation was unable to remove or use to motivate, the result from the heads in the team.

2 Ability...that’s it, being physically stronger than your opponent....we have this, but we are thin in depth.

Gelling saga and a key spine swap at the same time, and all the preseason training was disrupted...that effected preparation which can allow doubt to a player and that can lead to a loss of confidence....you loss confidence and you’ll lose that game before you have even stepped of the coach...that is what happened a Leeds.

Absolutely none of this has anything to do with 5 wins in 17 or whatever it is....it’s a stat, and a damming one, but that’s it.
This team have more than enough 2-ability to spit roast Castleford, and I’d be no more surprised if we put 30 on them than I would them putting 30 on us, the latter meaning we fails in the week ahead to address 1-preparation.

I already said that, I can shoot from the hip as good as anyone, I can also post stuff that is fishing if I can get away with it...
But sometimes I like to be the voice of reason, and considering almost everyone is against Wire, I’m backing them.

Duckie, can we just clear a couple of things up here. You lost game 1. Moreover you were losing when Hill got sent off. Further, Wigan crossed your line 5 times to Wire's once...and you never looked like crossing at any other point in the match. A plucky loss when down a man in game one of the season when most players literally only have minutes game time under their belt is not some harbinger of future success!

In the 2nd game Saints were down to bare bones. Again, not exactly some huge portent on how the season is going to unfold. A good win, yes, but no more than that.

Wire played pretty well in both those matches but to suggest that they were somehow a marker to how the rest of your season would go is bordering on lunacy!

I like the duck but sometimes the line that forms a border appears as a mere dot.

Your opinion is noted. How did Pies go against Cas?
Don’t answer that....let’s wait a while.

I agree with this as well as starting this season as we finished last, we do well in big games, is this down to Price be good at motivation or the player getting themselves up for the fight?

Player revolt?..

The use of ‘player revolt, ‘lost the room’, ‘staff fall out’, ‘ceo and coach clash’’...,all been used about the situation and all because...they simply don’t know.

Complacency followed by lack in confidence both as a direct failure in preparation.
And when/if Wire do a job on Cas..,how soon last week will be forgotten as with Pies and Saints.
However if preparation fails again after disruption in preparation, all the posts will return to the 5 in 15 line, whatever number it is, conveniently forgetting the great performances....with social media all posting that it has to be one of the for mentioned reasons.

Great performances? You mean 2 games against saints in the past 12 months? And even in those we toughed it out, rather than played decent rugby.

I think everyone inside the club already knows that SP's performance is not good enough, including the man himself. JIMO, but it's no longer worth arguing about any of this apart from perhaps speculating why it has happened. If Wire went on a winning run of say 9 from the next 10 games then possibly it could change the outcome. Other than that it's just a matter of time before he goes.

Trouble is however, how can you ensure that the next coach is the right man? Sacking the coach is the easy part, getting someone who is guaranteed to turn it around is much more difficult. And if you go with 'anyone is better than SP' will fans be happy if the outcome is a mid table result at the end of the season.

So, if it’s all down to preparation and ability, we all know the team has the ability on their day, then our failings are down to preparation. Who prepares the team, Price and his coaching staff. So who do we get rid of. Easier to rid ourselves of a coach than a full squad of players. We are not talking a coach who has served up Champagne rugby on a regular basis here are we? We are sitting 9th in the league. 5 teams above us have played 1 or even 2 games less. Terrible attack. Poor defence. This is this year, not last. Facts. 1 . Preparation. 2 Ability. What is lacking and what should be pointed out is 3. Attitude. The players too have to shoulder responsibility for this as they are letting us, the fans down.

I don't think anyone is in any doubt that the squad, particularly the current squad, has failed to [iconsistently[/i deliver performances of the quality they should.

The blame for that lies across the board. The players for apparently chooaing their games, the board for abymsal recruitment and failing to change the coaching setup at the end of last season and of course, the head coach himself.

I don't know if Briers and Henderson are part of the problem, too close to the players (Briers certainly is) or damned by association but the least disruptive change would be those two in charge, or Paul Anderson and Henderson.

At least Anderson and Henderson have some pedigree.