But this was the exact point I made. Clark was a genuine talent who had flourished at a bottom of the table Cas and had that experience of adversity, but then came to Warrington at a crummy time for us and STILL struggled and fell away massively when he arrived.

From an England fans point of view I genuinely think we have missed out massively on what Clark should have been. He has been nowhere near the player he should have been. Maybe all the rumour about him wanting to be back in Yorkshire at the start didn't help. This year he has been superb but in a completely different way and style to the player that won the MOS, yes players need to adapt and change their game to suit but for me he genuinely should have been Englands bench 9 then starting 9 for years with and then taking over form Roby. I wonder how he will look back on his career when it is done

Not really, he wasn't Man of Steel but he didn't fall away. He seemed to manage to play well last season. Are you saying that things at Warrington were that bad that nobody could be expected to have played well? Someone must have been doing something if we got to four finals. Ben Currie came through at this time and was showing international form before his injury problems. Toby King also came through and has established himself in the last year or so.

If a player is really top quality, he doesn't need excuses making for him. We will see over the next couple of years, if Patton really is a top class halfback able to lead a team to the SL title he will either force his way past Brown this year or will leave and go to another club and dominate there. But if he ends up moving on and being a so-so player in a mid/low ranking team, perhaps the story will develop on here that he COULD have been a great, just those early days when he came through and things were 'difficult' at Warrington must have ruined him forever!

Class shines through regardless of circumstance/teammates, how many more excuses is he going to get...HE IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!! Someone name me one, just one blinder he's had for us. I don't mean a game where he's done the basics well and played well....I mean a stormer or even one absolutely class pass or kick will suffice. All the coaching in the world or playing him alongside the Kangaroos will not give him an extra yard of pace or help him make decisions half a second quicker.

Or your agenda with singling me out?

Note how you always fail to enter reasoned debate on the subject and just issue proclamations which, with hindsight, have shown time and time again to be not worth the keyboard you mash them out on.

This nails it. Keep players that are mid-table (at best) quality and don't be surprised when we don't achieve.

Blimey. We had a super season last year. We have a much better looking squad this year.
Come on happy jack ... cheer up.

I've no agenda or singling you out. My response shows the frequency of some repetitive posts.
Why not give the players a blank sheet now we have what looks a great team on paper.
If Patton falters surrounded by such talent....then I'll bow before you.

Let's get talking about other stuff.

We were in both finals last season, the squad looks stronger, reasons to be cheerful 1,2,3!

Personally, I think Patton should be out of the club. He's rarely had a stand out game, just done enough to earn himself a contract. Don't get me wrong, I want the lad to succeed, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

He MUST [ihit the ground, running[/i, when he's given the chance, otherwise O don't see the point in him being here. He did the square root of nowt, this year. Price barely played him. He MUST make himself undroppable by Easter, otherwise it's a career of Widnes- Rochdale- North Wales - early retirement.

C'mon, lad. Ball's in your court, now.

I think that's about right lefty, we want him to succeed but so far he hasn't really looked anything other than a deputy really when he comes on. He looked hungry when he first came in for sandow but I don't think he has since really.

I agree we had a great season compared to 2017 in terms of making two finals.

And if the progression into 2019 continues then we will have a season to look forward to.

We were debating an individual player rather than the team as a whole though?

As a bit of advice though I would from making remarks about people's mental state in this day and age of awareness.

Thanks for the advice.
Have you considered the mental health of players that you continue to knock and knock in this day and age of awareness?

Do you not have a bad word to say about any player? Or is it OK to kncok players like Roberts or Asotasi, just not Patton?

I should hope the players avoid this forum, and professional sport with spectators, if they are sensitive to criticism.

I reckon most people are a sensitive to criticism of their job and players will be. I don't see why you can safely assume players or their friends/family won't see your comments.
As to my personal views on any player I try not to criticise individuals e.g. Roberts, Asotasi or Patton. It doesn't mean I can't see the problems.

I've no issues with W71 highlight's of poor form but his comment are tottering on constant insult of Patton hence my constant defence...which he thinks is my agenda. My agenda is balance. .
Give Patton a wide birth now W71 and let's look ahead please.

It's not good reading your posts anymore where one time they were amongst my favourites.

It's hardly like I am a loan voice, and it seems some players get special treatment on here, but I take the feedback and will lay off the subject for a bit.

Big man W71.

I assume you, Duckie, are going to lay off Chris Hill too.

Not sure I've bagged Hill since he cut out his cheap penalties.
I've been supportive of him as captain and he was emense at times for us in 2018.

No one is immune from criticism when they deserve it.
Including myself.
I can only recall letting rip on one player this season and that was Roberts.
I questioned him as far back as March but I still stuck by him until his disgrace in the GF that earned me a yellow card off FMC.

Back on topic I have high hopes for this squad based on a little bit of the players listed being better on paper than last year and preseason optimism why not have some positivity? Austin has said all the right things about his move which might actually make us a little easier on the eye I can't wait for Feb I'm really happy with Price from what I've seen and think he's planning with the help of our board (investors not forum).

As far as the Patton debate goes I think this will be a pivotal year I don't want to get into how many chances is he ever going to be good enough 'discussion' he's here and that's the end of it for now for me. I hope that he earns his place but I'm convinced that either way the Club will be looking at something to keep us chasing the Holy Grail and if Austin is happy and sets the place alight then we might have an idea of how and who would be a best fit partner.....I'm not writing next season off but 2019 recruitment could be quite interesting

Players DO deserve criticism. As does everyone in life. When I served my time it didn't matter how well I fabricated, my mentor would look at it call it Sh** and make me do it again. and when I did fab something well he'd look at it and say "it'll do, give it here" then go on the tell you it's still a couple of mm out on one side and something else needed doing, you wondered what you can possibly do to be perfect. Then after 3 years I came out my time and it clicks and you realise... No one can be perfect, it's impossible to be. However what you can do is try to be perfect. Make the effort to put everything into every job you do 100% of the time in order to try and be perfect. And when you have such high standards, just like the tradesmen around you once you turn up and slack off its glaringly obvious. Maybe you're having a bad day and you think "ah I can't be @r$ed, it'll do". Prepare to come under fire from everyone around you to critisise your work and not accept what you're producing until your effort is where it should be.

These lads are doing a job a vast majority of the male population in this town would give their right ball for, my self included. Nothing I can imagine, would be a greater feeling than running out at the HJ in the P&B on a packed out Friday night under the lights.

So if I don't think they're (or someone) pulling their weight, after I know that if I had even a snippet of their talent, I'd be leaving that field with absolutely nothing left then yeah, I'll say exactly what I think and they should expect it. It comes with the stripes. And I hope they do see the criticism and I hope their families see it and tell them everyone's pee'd off about the way they're playing because frankly, using Roberts as an example as he's most recent, the way he played was an absolute joke. 10 points behind with 15 minutes to go what can we all see? That bleeding t1t strolling round the pitch with his chewing gum like he hasn't a care in the world. If there was ever a visual description of someone who looked like they couldn't give a toss it was him.

I'm not bothered if you're not if you're homesick I get it, it's a huge change and you will never know till you try that's fine. But at least show respect for the shirt and the colours what mean so much to the town. Especially your halfbacks, they should be screaming instructions, dragging players to where they want them telling everyone around them exactly what they want them to do. You know.... Putting 100% effort in.

And if they can't handle the criticism or the pressure that comes from high standards in everything they do 100% of the time then they should be shown the door.

I get it I really do, but, this thread is about Squad Numbers and I'm sorry, but, for someone styling themselves as Moving On....

I understand as well. Those three years have left their mark on "moving on".
Anyway good squad. If we don't get too many injuries Rochdale will be rubbing their hands. Can't wait.