Sorry but have to disagree with the majority on here about Matty Russell. He is crucial to the way we play and that means fast plays at dummy half which is our best way of defeating Hull in the Final to keep their big pack on the back foot. His best position is full back where he is consistently one of our best metre makers. Ratchford to centre and Lineham and Penny on the wings to support the full back.
Clark, Dwyer, Russell and Ratchford and fast play the ball is our best option.
Also need to see a lot more of Ben Currie who has been quiet recently - need to see him taking more ball and dominating in the way Jack Hughes is doing.

This ^^^

Fast play the balls i.e. one up rugby.

I hate this style we've adopted of late, I want expansive stuff at pace, not Brian '5DAAK' Noble rugby.

If I wanted to watch mindnumbing tedious rugby I could go to the DW for that

Russell as FB is a no from me. Too tiny regardless of how many metre on ball return.

To some extent I agree with you 49er (and Dessie) but this is an ideal world, a world where Russell can actually catch a ball kicked up in the air and Lineham can actually be bothered to put a shift in, a world that we are currently not operating in.

Does size matter? I know that it does to some extent and you've used the argument about a good big v a good little un etc but Russell's problem isn't his size for me, apparently he's bigger than Hodgson, it's his ability and or confidence in his ability.

He's still relatively young, but, he's not looked the same since he took that hit against Widnes, in fact of all the teams he seems to struggle against Widnes in particular. It's not that they have found a magic formula, just kick it in the air seems to spread panic, so much so that this year's trip to Widnes had him swapping positions with Johnson attack and defence and if Widnes can do it do we not think that the likes of Sneyd will have a go at Wembley?

Add to this Lineham's lack of mobility on the turn or lack of effort depending upon your viewpoint and it wouldn't be too difficult to come up with an attacking kicking game plan

Russell's meters are good. And that's once he's had to run to the other side of the pitch to gather the ball because he was stood in the wrong place. Imagine how many sets we would start on our own 40 or on the half way if he was stood in the right pace?

The fact he stands a good 40m behind the line on the second tackle makes be nervous. A good cleaver half back playing in a team with confidence (i.e. Cas, Hull even Wigan and Saints to an extent) could chip a defence and run riot with that.

Out of dummy half he's good, ill give him that. But I don't see why we are constantly trying to accommodate a player who can only do two things. Scoot and run.

Its an over-simplification (and exaggeration), but we are playing Russell because we only have one prop that can make decent yardage and Russell gets us back up field with his scoots. Against smaller packs its not a problem. Against the bigger ones, particularly where they have halves that have a kicking game, we struggle.

This is the problem. Whilst we insist on playing a prop with the 21st worst average gain in the team we will always have a yardage problem.

What is our yardage problem, that we measure it in metres?

Wigan have made second most metres with less than 4,000 more than lowest ranked Wakefield yet Warrington who lead the way with well over 2,000 more than Wigan. We are way out in front in metres made. If we have a problem what does that say about all the other teams. Perhaps it's because we haven't had to play against the meanest defence in the league.

As for the prop then his average is consistent with or slightly better than Manu from Hull; Flower, Sutton and O'Loughlin from Wigan; Lynch and Millington at Cas; Mounis and Elima from Catalans; Huby at Hudds; and Cuthbertson and Singleton at Leeds however Sims overall metres made is considerably greater than all those listed above.

Sometimes I struggle to understand what people want. At least this message board is busier this week after the loss to Saints than it was the week after we won the semi to get to Wembley. Work that one out.

The assertion was that we only have one prop (that we play as Cox is decent too) that makes decent yardage.
I too believe we struggle to make yardage with our pack. Without Hill being the top meter maker IN THE LEAGUE we would be well and truly shown up. I make no comment on the yardage or gains of the backs or halves.

Manu is the 19th AG of Hull, O'Loughlin is a LF, the others are not Top 4 sides. Let's do some more meaningful comparisons.

Iafeta Palea'aesina 8.62
Mitchell Garrett 8.4
Scott Taylor 8.31
Chris Hill 8.17
Junior Moors 8.16
Alex Walmsley 7.7

Whilst ...

Ashton Sims 6.68

Sims is not my cup of tea as a forward I am afraid, especially as we have been spoilt with the likes of Morley, Carvell, Hill, Wood, Cooper etc. Yes he offloads. and occasionally they connect, but I cannot see that Wigan, Hull, Saints, Leeds would either be troubled by him or want to sign him. You, and those close to you, must think he is the best thing since sliced bread. That's fine, we can disagree.

As for struggling what people want, this is a forum for posting opinions and discussion. Some of which may differ from yours. I think it's completely fair game to discuss things like 1) the omission of our heralded big name signing winger. 2) the omission of a crowd favourite winger. 3) The persistence in playing players out of position 4) Where Ratchford should play. 5) Our on/off form and consistency 6) Lack of prop forwards as well as saying how wonderful it is we beat Oldham, Widnes and Wakefield to get to Wembley. But if this forum, and your fellow fans cause you such consternation, you may be better not coming on here for enjoyment. It always seems that you hold fellow posters in contempt.

Sometimes you don't need a prop who drives an extra two metres with three men on his back at snails pace while the opposition's defence gets set. You need someone to drop quickly and get a quick ptb.

Shame there isn't a stat on average time to ptb.

My criticism of Sims isn't that he doesn't drive forward much in contact, it's that he never breaks a tackle.

Morley, Hill, Wood ,Carvell & Cooper. Sadly, there is very little in the form of replacement English props in today's league of the same calibre as any of the above & let's be honest the weekly enjoyment on this forum ,at the time these players were on our books, was slagging them off apart from Moz & Hill. Even our great hope for next season ,Cooper, was a figure to be slated most weeks.

Harrison'll be back next season

Hill has made his career on being difficult to stop, leg drive and drawing in 3 men then getting a quick ptb whilst the 3rd man is running back.

Yes I wonder what Les Boyd's,Kevin Ward's or Adrian Morley's average time to PTB was. Actually I don't care, I loved them for their rough uncompromising enforcer play. I'm a dinosaur though and find myself more and more in a minority at thinking how dull our game has become.

I do give credit where due. Sims over the last 2 weeks has tried to make more hard yards and drive than that constant turn and offload as soon as a finger is laid on him.
Just getting that balance right, a bit of both.
He actually half broke a tackle too v Saints with his hard running against a strong pack.
I have 50p that v Wakefield he breaks a tackle and either scores or there is a try off his pass.
(Don't let me down now Sims)

Well you're not in the minority in thinking the game is duller wires71. I mean we have to watch Russell on the wing due to 'good exit sets' blurgh! Offiah wouldnt get a game these days and what a sight he was in full flow....even against us

Wingers are a real problem for us I think.
Evans isn't a wing. He's not quick enough. He's a top class defensive centre.
Russell isn't a winger either but he does offer something at ptb.

I'd don't understand TS's view on our current wingers and Pennys' position.
Reading the Keith Senior biography (in which he says TS is the best club coach he's worked with) he does this that TS occasionally gets fixated on things erroneously. Maybe this is one of those things.

Just looking up 'erroneously'....
I was wide of the mark, getting that wrong.

Yes I used to like/fear Henderson Gill too. Then of course we had Dessie.

I'm very old fashioned. I like props to be hard as nails and run like they mean it and intimidate. First in when aggro starts and to break tackles. I like the halfbacks to be crafty, take on the line, and marshall a team around the park. I like centres with guile and class making space for wingers, and for wingers to be fast, illusive and skilful.

Do we have one player who with a 5 yard advantage can score a length of the field try without passing ?

Penny.

If people find the game duller now why do we average 10,000 per game against the circa 5,000 in your halcyon period?

Seriously? Next thing is you'll claim he's a defensive warrior on the basis of not missing a tackle all season.

When you have two Hookers who love to jump, Sims is exactly the sort of Prop you need. A Prop who attracts 3 defenders, finds his front quick, gets up before the markers are set and watch Clark go.

Attacking in an opponents 10m. Watch him stand at 1st receiver and attract 3 men only for him to run a dummy line and the ball hit Gidley or Sandow out the back. There are then, three less men in the defensive line.

Honestly. Does anyone actually watch the game or are you just there to celebrate a try?

What more do you want from a prop?

Does he take the hard balls in when we're stuck after a good kick? Yes.
Does he take a backward step? No.
Does he put his body on the line for a big collision? Yes.
Does he win collisions? Yes
Does he do the little 1% things that go un noticed? Always.
Does he lead from the front with Hill? Yes.



We all sound like a bunch of whinging saints fans because we're not scoring 1,000 points a game.

Decent shout there



If Dodds would have been playing regular, this discussion wouldn't crop up. All those statements above would still be true, but Dodds would taking more headlines while Sims would be banging away at the defence quietly under the radar. Losing Dodds has had a big impact on us bigger than most expected.