Well, quite.

Dreary me, fact this and fact that you're not Rafa Benetez are you?.

No sour grapes grapes from me at all, we have a system and have to play to it, if you had bothered to read a post ot two of mine you may have established that last season my hearty congratulations went to both Leeds and the Wigan club, so 0/10 in the Mystic Meg department.

The 'fact' that I prefer another system and think that it's fairer is just my opinion and what got my goat up was that anyone with an opposing view according to you was 100% wrong and that makes you very arrogant ....in my opinion of course (not factually)

correct... because the weekly rounds are now 'not that big a deal' in the grand scheme of things.... which leads to boring matches, flat atmospheres and a waning interest.

which is kind of what the threads about

Totally agree with this post no interest in games , all that matters is top 8 finish. The top team after weekly rounds should be crowned champions, make the play offs different competition. Seems pointless playing weekly rounds. Look at saints how well they have done yet actually won very little.

I think a lot of the reason English sport prefers a promotion/relegation setup is the love of the underdog. The relegation battle is usually much more interesting than the race for the championship and the idea of a "smaller" team turning over a "larger" team to stay up appeals to the national psyche.

What can't be disputed is that the SL play-offs were brought in to sustain interest over the course of the season and yet two months in and fans as a whole are already yawning and examining their watches. On that basis the present format is failing.

The grand-final is undoubtedly now a key event in the games calendar, with attendances to confirm it, but that doesn't vindicate the play-off format generally, nor does it nullify the promotion/relegation argument.

Try telling the Barcelona manager or Bayern munich manager that the fifth best team in spain, Malaga, could yet become winners of the Champions league.

The sixth best team in England were "Champions of Europe" last season.

I still reckon most of the negativity on here is caused by the hangover of our recent failure to win Super League, even if it is subconscious sulking in some cases.

As someone said earlier, if we had won the Grand Final no one would be saying Wigan should be champions.

Don't get me started on the format in football.

I remember the Scousers going round claiming they were champions of Europe with such greats as Djmi Traore and Harry Kewell in their team when they finished 5th in the league and were below Everton, just because they won a one off knock out game on a penalty shoot out.

Nowadays all football is about is the mighty fourth place in the league.

Play weakened sides in the League Cup, even the FA Cup, just chase that magic fourth!

Imagine If the 'multi club' World club challenge format takes off, imagine if its popular, entertaining, taken seriously by the Aussies, and an English side could win it. we could scrap the grand final go back to first past the post and the big end of year event would be the World club challenge Final.... and you'd still give mid table teams something to aim for by finishing in the top four and qualifying for the WCC.

ahhh But then clubs would be accused of aiming for fourth place and a WCC spot, and fans would start moaning and saying it was better when you had to win the grand final to become world champions........




it all seemed so much simpler when we were rubbish

After reading this thread i have had my mind firmly changed... I realise i was wrong. The compelling counter argument of 'people are just moaning because we didnt win the Grand Final' is a strong one.

So lets ignore the sanitisation of the game, the half paced tempo of league games and the flat atmospheres... Lets be grateful that we have the greatest game on earth.

I promise, going forward, to not find myself being bored watching rugby league.

I believe loosing last seasons grand final tarnished some people's thoughts and you can see arguments for & against the play off system. It could be worse, we could okay for 90 mins and fall to the floor at any opportunity just like football. "Come on the Wire"

Are you from Wigan?

Don't be daft , he can read & write.

This

It seems in this debate that you can't seem to point out to people often enough, that The Premier League and Champions League are two separate competitions. just because two English teams won the champions League trophy it didn't mean that they they usurped the Champions of England.

Sorry City, Chelsea won a 'bigger' cup so they've leapfrogged above you...yeah right

I actually think the quality of games has increased from the games I've seen. Granted I didn't see the thumping Wigan gave Widnes but overall I think the intensity up until the last round of games seemed higher than last season.

I don't agree that we should have a top 8 play off but that's the way it is, and I'd take a play-off system to decide the champions over the boring FPTP format. With the play offs it means you get the top teams playing each other more often which I think is better for the game. I mean would we rather see the title decided infornt of 5,000 at Salford or 70,000 at OT.

Last year we had a situation where we played Saints and got beat. We played them again two weeks later and won rendering the first game meaningless apart from having to play an extra game in between.

I don't know how that is better for the game.

It's not anti Leeds sentiment your are a top, top side, or 'sour grapes' by yours truly, but, I'm still not persuaded by the 'Play Off' argument.

If we accept that Wigan win the title at Salford (God forbid), and it mean't something, do you think that it wouldn't sell out? Your 5,000 figure is there to make your point and in some way makes mine. The reason that there might be only 5,000 at Salford is because "it's only the hub cap, the minor prem' blah de blah

What I would offer is that the Grand Final is now a stand out fixture, an event that attracts a broad spectrum of rugby league supporters from non participating clubs, great marketing, a bit like the Challenge Cup only closer to home.

Do you think they wouldn't sell out OT if the reward was tweaked? For example, based on last year Wigan were Champions (bit of a sorry theme here) and Warrington and Leeds were playing for a big pot of Sky cash to spend on next years recruitment and the second spot in an expanded WCC?

im not reading that clearly...?? are you suggesting you could crown a team champions and have the two runners up to them play infront of 75,000 fans for no trophy no title just some nominal prize money and spot in a WCC competition.?

we cant sell out the halton stadium for a knock out game that gets the winner a spot at wembley big prize money and national media coverage......... surely your completely dreaming. we can only ever sell out old trafford for a grand final.

we cant even sell out a football stadium by getting half of the league to play local derbies in it on one day.......

I've got another suggestion for you - a strictly policed salary cap which would produce a level playing field and therefore the competitive games you all crave. FYI London currently spend to the limit of the cap. There's a rumour in London that Simon Moran wants to explore the huge potential of London and introduce celebrities to RL. He may buy out David Hughes. That would then give you fixtures you could get excited about!

The main reason that the format doesn't currently work is the lack of competitive teams.

Warrington, Wigan, Saints, Leeds etc all know that they can get into the top 8 by picking and choosing the games they want to compete in and the games they want to rest players in.

If we had 14 competitive teams, then the top teams wouldn't have that luxury, or if we there were less teams getting into the playoffs we wouldn't have that luxury.

As it is, there are currently only about 5 decent teams in the league and there are 8 playoff places, so the league becomes very pointless.

8 years ago we were one of the mediocre teams, so it was far more exciting as we didn't know if we would make it to the playoffs or not, so most games had some significance.

We are a top team now, and for the top teams, winning the league has no value to it currently. The league is just there to get yourself into the playoffs.
This devalues some of the league fixtures but it is accepted because that is how playoffs work.

The amount of teams that get into the playoffs has been increased to 8 to keep more teams with an interest for longer.
This devalues even more of the league fixtures for the teams in the top 4 to 6 places.

Leeds have won from outside the top 4 for 2 years running, which has made teams believe that it is not vital to finish in the top 2 or 4.
This devalues even more of the league fixtures for the top teams.

Glad I started this post. Some good views both side of the fence.

For me the devaluation of the importance of 2 points and a win and the habitual resting of players means I shall not be renewing my two VP tickets for next season. I shall just pick my games.

Nothing to do with sour grapes, it's that weekends are precious leisure time for me and there are better things to do than sit and watch a game waiting for full time to come.

Just wait for the explosion of anger on here when the 19 is named at 2pm and fans see who is rested this week!!

--just about sums it up for me as well--i actually caught the flu watching the widnes game , which cost me a few days off work ,and for what-the early rounds,i find,imo,are pointless!no s-t for me nxt season im afraid!will just choose the games to go on from now on

One point I would make is that most fans of these decent teams, while they're quite happy to see the play offs reduced to five, are rather quieter regarding possible merits of a four or three team format. A cynic might think that this was a case of pulling up the ladder behind them. Of course this doesn't apply to FPTP purists but I've yet to read many of their suggestions as to how lost revenue might be recovered, were their preferred method of deciding the title winner adopted.

It could well be that some of the previously 'rested' players were in fact injured.