^Spot on that.

How old is rugby league? and out of how many of those years did it survive on a simple league campaign?

You miss the point it’s the effect the play offs and the title of champions has on the weekly rounds that’s the point, but to take up your point, tell me if Leeds are worthy Champions, why could they only finish fifth in SL?

[uThanks for making my point for me! [/uWhy bother too much with the weekly rounds? Short change your fans on these, just save yourselves for the big one. GREAT why should fans go to the pointless weekly rounds? Good one, let’s just have a league of five or six; forget the rest they’re not going to win out anyway. I hope your blueprint for the future of SL ends up in the bin, because if it doesn’t that might be where SL will end up itself.

Firstly, well played Wire; you can be very proud of what your team's achieved this season.

Re trophies, my preference is always the GF although that's as much about the "Rhinoglow" lasting for the entire off season and beyond. In terms of merit, I'll happily applaud Wigan for winning the LLS and yourselves for winning the CC. To my mind, all are of similar merit. And I too would be happy to see a return to a top 5 playoff system.

But I really don't see how not buying a season ticket is going to help your club make another step up (although to be fair there are far more on the Pies' board banging on about this and, perhaps understandably so). Even as a Leeds fan I'd be forced to acknowledge the greatness of a team that could win CC, LLS and GF. To my mind, yours is the side most likely to do that. It's been a few years now since Leeds have threatened to win the league; your dominance of the CC is apparent and for the first time you came very, very close to winning the GF. At a guess, your current side has one, maybe two, years with a realistic chance of the treble. Surely the thing to do is get right behind your side and go for it?

I guess the obvious answer is they didin't they finished Champions, but the answer to the question youu were trying to pose is because they didn't need to finish any higher and their focus on peaking at the business end of the season means they tolerate being undercooked during the regular season.

It's really not too difficult to understand, but it is obviously very difficult for many clubs to implement.

Overall, in RL's history very few years have been decided by a first past the post league system.

This isn't some new concept that first arrived in 1998.

[uI see you continue to be deliberatlely obtuse but never mind.[/u

Personally I would go with the a certain Mr J Peacock`s view and cut the league to 10 teams and have a more intensive competition

I would award the Championship title to the league winners and have a separate play-off end of season trophy and retain the CC has it stands for all teams.

The cost would be a higher gate charge so clubs maintain current income.

Firstly, I think this is a fair and unbiased comment on a tricky problem. However, i dont think the issue is about one club (Wire in this instance) losing their ST holders, but rather RL fans in general. My concern is that in trying to 'milk the golden cow' via the playoff system, the RL will lose revenue via fans disinterest in the regular season. There can be no doubt that the playoffs rake in a lot of money for the governing body; the final alone must have creamed in the region of £1.4 million, but at what price for regular games in 2013 ?

And all of this problem could be easily rectified by elevating the value (in some manner) of the LLS. A low key cup perhaps ? I don't know exactly where the 'value' should be pitched, and it would obviously need to be below that of the GF, but Wigan do deserve more (IMO) for winning the league, and as a RL fan, I do feel they deserved more from their season.

Obtuse, I don’t like to get personal myself, but sometimes it’s hard not to give into it when you can’t promote any kind of cogent argument, so I won’t. Let’s just wait and see whose view of the shape of things was clearer, yours or mine!

I've been ST holder since we moved into the HJ despite knowing that I would miss 3 or 4 games each season. The fact that I've been missing so many games has been making me rethink buying a season ticket for the past few years now, but the benefits (knowing I have a ticket when I am able to go without having to buy one, first dabs on semi final and finals tickets, 10% discount in the shop, etc) have kept me dipping my hand into my pocket.

But now, I do think there was a drop in the quality and intensity of games last season, not just Wire but across the league. Is this just a general dip or are the clubs/coaches/players starting to feel the same as the fans and realise that making the top eight is the only thing that counts. The 27 rounds of Super League are merely a qualifying competition, where at least five clubs start the season almost certain of making it, to get into a three or four game finals tournament. Do I really want to pay for a season ticket when I'll only see maybe ten games, and of those ten, in five or six of them we are likely to be playing without four, five or more of our 'star' players. Other than possible bragging rights against our near neighbours, none of the league games really mean that much anymore.

Leeds winning from fifth is a fantastic acheivement, and doing it twice is just incredible, and they should be applauded for it. It might be great for Leeds and their fans, but I wonder whether it really is that good for the game in general both on, and off the pitch.

Wigan deserve the utmost respect for winning the regular season, as did your team last year, and I posted congratulations on both boards at the time. I can't really see a way forward tbh, unless the clubs in question make more of it, maybe be holding a public reception or the like. Of course that would require the fans to buy into it and I think that input would vary quite widely from club to club. (For all I know, the clubs may actually have done this but I'm not aware of it if they have)

If you cant see that I have made a cogent arguement based on the expressed view of a respected and professional player then that would seem to fit the definition...

ob·tuse (b-ts, -tys, b-)
adj. ob·tus·er, ob·tus·est

a. Lacking quickness of perception or intellect.
b. Characterized by a lack of intelligence or sensitivity

The rugby league season has 2 events now... both are cup runs... As many have said, and many have laughed at.. the league is virtually pointless. The games now reduced to almost friendly status.... The fact that the champions have come from 5th for the last 2 seasons just shows how irrelevant league position has now become.

Thats a statement which would only be made by a losing side.

so league position is important ?

Let's imagine Leeds had finished 8th instead of 5th. They would have had an away game at Hull which I think most people would expect them to win. They would then have played Wire and have shown both this season and last that they can beat us when it matters. Chosen by Wigan, and we know what happened there then on to probably play Saints in the final again.

Leeds have shown without a doubt that reaching the top eight is all important, if a team is good enough and has the right attitude, which Leeds clearly are and have, then there is little difference between finishing 8th or 1st.

You can even make a case that finishing at the top is hindering teams.... That week off doesn't seem to do the team any good during the playoffs. Teams always seem to come back from that looking a bit rusty and off their game. It seems to stop any momentum.

Club call and the ability to lose a game are a pretty big advantage. If clubs can't use hose advantages to make it to the final they shouldn't really blame the system.

Not sure about the week off. It should mean a team is fresher and more likely to be injury free but it can also stop momentum as you say.

I enjoy the play-offs, some great games and Leeds did exceptionaly well to win it, but because of the play-off's the weekly rounds were boring, we didn't go for it and i suspect Wigan won't make it a priority next season, the big clashes are rarer with this system.

Don't know exactly but:-

1998 - 2012 - Play Off system
1974 - 1997 - League Campaign (oh, and the entire sport had to be bailed out by a TV company towards the end of that period. In fact, so significant was the bail out that we had to change when we played the games)

I know we used to have a play off in the 70s because we talked about it pre match on Saturday - apparently we were the first team to finish top who didn't win the league. Don't know how far back that went but there is a long history of using play offs to determine the champion in Rugby League.

I take your point generally though - we've survived on a simple league campaign before, we could survive again. Maybe. However context is everything - one of our biggest clubs nearly died the other month. Don't think we can safely rely on the fact it used to be OK to have a league campaign as a reason to just use that moving forward.

The competition is set up the way it is ... and will be so next season. Leeds played the system (again!) and won the game that we all knew in February would decide who would be called 'champions'.

I don't agree with it, and the farcical end to the season was embarrassing for all genuine RL supporters (ok, maybe Leeds fans think the system is great, but it's not the 'who' were champions that's wrong, it's the 'how'!). Over the last few weeks, many teams were fielding, shall we say 'less than full strength' teams, to jockey for position, with Wire securing a top 2 spot, then basically forcing Wigan to finish top, whilst Leeds did just enough throughout the season to finish either 5th or 6th to avoid an awkward first PO game It made for a complete mockery of the league itself.

I do have a season ticket but the worry is, once we (or any team) has won 15 games, then they are almost certain to be in the playoffs ....... so why should they risk injury? And I definitely don't want to watch reserve players acting out what effectively become 'friendlies'.

Unless they change things very quickly, 2013 may well be the season that the RFL, in their greed to build up the importance of the GF over the league, wreck the income the clubs currently generate from the regular season!

That's my worry in a nutshell

Has the competetion moved on since play-offs were introduced. The game is no bigger and as you say clubs such as Bradford still find themselves in trouble. The play off system hasn't saved us from death, it is however killing the weekly rounds for the better clubs that will comfortably make the play offs, i would agree it works in favour of weaker clubs giving them something to go for. I attended TWO weekly round early in the season, as i was bored at those games i never went again. Not since the birth of my children have i missed so many games.

Has a recent previous poster has pointed out the game was virtuallly bankrupt, prior to the introduction of the current GF play offs system in 1994, and without the SKY bailout the game would not have survived under the old league system

Yes it might well need tweaking a bit but the current league + play offs is the only viable system in this SL era