Not fair, Duckie. There are lots who feel that Patton has not progressed at all. If he left us, he would not go to Wigan, St Helens, Cas, Hull. He might go to Leeds but that says more about their recent bizarre recruitment than it does about him. He is not good enough to give us the half back spark we need. A lot is resting on Austin's shoulders.

:2pjesdpv

1 - Probably a fair call-out. An academy is only as good as the quality of first team players it produces. In which case by my own logic, it's not a very good academy! I am still of the view that our academy itself, and our effort (be it financially) to bring in talented youngsters from around the country is up there with the best. I did a quick search for a couple of articles I remember reading about the make-up of the England Academy Squad a few years back, from around the time I was describing (Currie, Laithwaite, GOB, the Evans twins all there etc), and in 2010 we were the second most represented club behind Wigan. In 2011 we were the most represented. I guess there are more barometers of what makes a good academy, but certainly that crop of players were identified as the most talented young English players at that time.

2 - Has he progressed under Price this season? Honestly difficult to answer, as he's not played enough in the halves. If you pointed a gun at my head, I'd have to say no, based solely on what I've seen on the pitch. In my view, our best HB paring last season was Roberts and Brown, so Dec doesn't play when all's fit and available.

But what have you seen that encourages you that he will flourish in 2019 and is a raw talent worth persisting with?
Price did single him out when he arrived as someone he was very excited to working with (or on). Dec signed a new contract this season. The noises from both him and Price were positive. I would wager Price has been working with him on the training ground to fit better into his style, with the trade-off being he had to be patient last season, maybe slot in at interchange 9, but he will get his chance. He'll no doubt rotate more with Brown getting more rests this season. If Steve Price talks the guy up, and thinks he's worth persisting with, then I'm on board with that.

Price?"

If a player can't flourish in trying circumstances, is he the type of player that fits our ambition? I guess it depends on where our ambition is. Given our record of near misses in recent years surely our ambition should be, to be Super League champions, to be the best team in the country. That means the likes of Harris, Briers and Sculthorpe are the type of calibre we are looking at.

But also lets be honest about these "trying circumstances" - he's played in three major finals already! He came in to a side that topped the league and reached two finals in the same year, he played in a Grand Final in about his 17th Super League start. And this year he's been in two more finals. How many other young players his age have had those opportunities?

Look at the experience Daryl Clark had at the start of his SL career playing in Millward's Cas at the bottom of the table, or Danny Walker at Widnes. A genuine talent can shine in a team that is struggling.

Yes you may think this is harsh and yes Patton may be good enough to have a SL career, I agree he is. But I think he's in the calibre of player who can be a first choice starter at a lower SL team or a squad player at a team like Warrington. If our ambitions are to be the best team in SL, he isn't the quality of player that will get us there as a starter.

GO'B is in the same category, but I think he is a better player than Patton.

But this was the exact point I made. Clark was a genuine talent who had flourished at a bottom of the table Cas and had that experience of adversity, but then came to Warrington at a crummy time for us and STILL struggled and fell away massively when he arrived.

From an England fans point of view I genuinely think we have missed out massively on what Clark should have been. He has been nowhere near the player he should have been. Maybe all the rumour about him wanting to be back in Yorkshire at the start didn't help. This year he has been superb but in a completely different way and style to the player that won the MOS, yes players need to adapt and change their game to suit but for me he genuinely should have been Englands bench 9 then starting 9 for years with and then taking over form Roby. I wonder how he will look back on his career when it is done

Not really, he wasn't Man of Steel but he didn't fall away. He seemed to manage to play well last season. Are you saying that things at Warrington were that bad that nobody could be expected to have played well? Someone must have been doing something if we got to four finals. Ben Currie came through at this time and was showing international form before his injury problems. Toby King also came through and has established himself in the last year or so.

If a player is really top quality, he doesn't need excuses making for him. We will see over the next couple of years, if Patton really is a top class halfback able to lead a team to the SL title he will either force his way past Brown this year or will leave and go to another club and dominate there. But if he ends up moving on and being a so-so player in a mid/low ranking team, perhaps the story will develop on here that he COULD have been a great, just those early days when he came through and things were 'difficult' at Warrington must have ruined him forever!

Class shines through regardless of circumstance/teammates, how many more excuses is he going to get...HE IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!! Someone name me one, just one blinder he's had for us. I don't mean a game where he's done the basics well and played well....I mean a stormer or even one absolutely class pass or kick will suffice. All the coaching in the world or playing him alongside the Kangaroos will not give him an extra yard of pace or help him make decisions half a second quicker.

Or your agenda with singling me out?

Note how you always fail to enter reasoned debate on the subject and just issue proclamations which, with hindsight, have shown time and time again to be not worth the keyboard you mash them out on.

This nails it. Keep players that are mid-table (at best) quality and don't be surprised when we don't achieve.

Blimey. We had a super season last year. We have a much better looking squad this year.
Come on happy jack ... cheer up.

I've no agenda or singling you out. My response shows the frequency of some repetitive posts.
Why not give the players a blank sheet now we have what looks a great team on paper.
If Patton falters surrounded by such talent....then I'll bow before you.

Let's get talking about other stuff.

We were in both finals last season, the squad looks stronger, reasons to be cheerful 1,2,3!

Personally, I think Patton should be out of the club. He's rarely had a stand out game, just done enough to earn himself a contract. Don't get me wrong, I want the lad to succeed, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

He MUST [ihit the ground, running[/i, when he's given the chance, otherwise O don't see the point in him being here. He did the square root of nowt, this year. Price barely played him. He MUST make himself undroppable by Easter, otherwise it's a career of Widnes- Rochdale- North Wales - early retirement.

C'mon, lad. Ball's in your court, now.

I think that's about right lefty, we want him to succeed but so far he hasn't really looked anything other than a deputy really when he comes on. He looked hungry when he first came in for sandow but I don't think he has since really.

I agree we had a great season compared to 2017 in terms of making two finals.

And if the progression into 2019 continues then we will have a season to look forward to.

We were debating an individual player rather than the team as a whole though?

As a bit of advice though I would from making remarks about people's mental state in this day and age of awareness.

Thanks for the advice.
Have you considered the mental health of players that you continue to knock and knock in this day and age of awareness?

Do you not have a bad word to say about any player? Or is it OK to kncok players like Roberts or Asotasi, just not Patton?

I should hope the players avoid this forum, and professional sport with spectators, if they are sensitive to criticism.

I reckon most people are a sensitive to criticism of their job and players will be. I don't see why you can safely assume players or their friends/family won't see your comments.
As to my personal views on any player I try not to criticise individuals e.g. Roberts, Asotasi or Patton. It doesn't mean I can't see the problems.

I've no issues with W71 highlight's of poor form but his comment are tottering on constant insult of Patton hence my constant defence...which he thinks is my agenda. My agenda is balance. .
Give Patton a wide birth now W71 and let's look ahead please.

It's not good reading your posts anymore where one time they were amongst my favourites.

It's hardly like I am a loan voice, and it seems some players get special treatment on here, but I take the feedback and will lay off the subject for a bit.

Big man W71.

I assume you, Duckie, are going to lay off Chris Hill too.

Not sure I've bagged Hill since he cut out his cheap penalties.
I've been supportive of him as captain and he was emense at times for us in 2018.

No one is immune from criticism when they deserve it.
Including myself.
I can only recall letting rip on one player this season and that was Roberts.
I questioned him as far back as March but I still stuck by him until his disgrace in the GF that earned me a yellow card off FMC.

Back on topic I have high hopes for this squad based on a little bit of the players listed being better on paper than last year and preseason optimism why not have some positivity? Austin has said all the right things about his move which might actually make us a little easier on the eye I can't wait for Feb I'm really happy with Price from what I've seen and think he's planning with the help of our board (investors not forum).

As far as the Patton debate goes I think this will be a pivotal year I don't want to get into how many chances is he ever going to be good enough 'discussion' he's here and that's the end of it for now for me. I hope that he earns his place but I'm convinced that either way the Club will be looking at something to keep us chasing the Holy Grail and if Austin is happy and sets the place alight then we might have an idea of how and who would be a best fit partner.....I'm not writing next season off but 2019 recruitment could be quite interesting