In terms of the Bulls sad decline, their demise is unquestionable confirmation of one truth - most people tasked with the job of "running" so-called professional RL clubs are not fit to run a car boot sale.

Twenty years since the inception of SL and most of our clubs, and more importantly the [ifinancial aspects[/i of those clubs, are still run by RL dinosaurs and small-time business-men who could just about cope in the pre-SL days of prehistoric stadia, local sponsors, back of a fag packet contracts and budget and forecasts scribbled on post-it notes. They then surfed the SL wave and have floundered when the gravy train hit the buffers, and taken their clubs and speccies down with them.

I said many years ago that the RFL should introduce a rule that all SL clubs finances have to be audited by an independent third party annually, with the threat of sanctions in the event of any irregularities or malpractice. It's no good crying "shame!" when a financial black hole the size of Odsal appears and the HMRC are on the phone, the clubs need protecting from themselves.

Sounds like some winger we picked up a couple of years ago from Rochdale. Kevin something I think his name is. I reckon he was about 25 a couple of years ago.

Yes, they made a real mess. The rot was accelerated by their stupid dispute with Leeds over Iestyn Harris which must have cost them a fortune to settle. It gives me no joy to recall being 'lectured' on these boards by a Bulls supporter in their heyday, who insisted that 'The People's Club' was in a different place from other sides whose popularity was based on success, thus ensuring that Bradford would enjoy bumper crowds for eternity. I'm happy that a Bradford club appears to be likely for 2017, but not for the exisiting club's creditors who look like being stuffed.

This is spot on,the people that caused the demise should be held accountable, in their pomp they must of been raking it in and as I see it helping themselves to the honey pot,I maybe wrong but that's how I see it. By the way I'm not talking about the current people that have been running the club, all this would of started with the people in charge when the club were doing well.

That might have been me. And let that be a lesson to you!



(I really don't think it was me).

Iestyn Harris was expensive. There's no doubt about that at all.

But there's also no doubt about the reasons why the club folded. Odsal. After most of the success happened the deal at Odsal changed. I wrote about it some more [url=http://viewtopic.php?p=18493976#p18493976here[/url if you're interested.

I certainly feel for the real creditors acting in good faith. But 90%+ of it was Greens, and I have very little sympathy for the man at all - two of the three administrations were his work. He called them in both times. Last time he won the club. This time he gambled and lost, and we're all the victims.

If he'd had a budget after our financial difficulty - close to 40 players for the first year in the Championship half of whom never played, and I think after a clear out and promise that would never happen again it was very nearly 50 by the end of last year - then I might have some sympathy for him. As things stand I do not.

But, even without him, at Odsal we are doomed. The game wants its money back, I understand. There isn't any.

Thank you everyone who wishes us well. Good luck to you this year.

Indeed, we're a lucky set of fans to have Moran and the rest of the board looking after our club. Not only do we have money men behind us (Moran and Middleton both worth over £100m) but they have the business acumen to keep the club moving forward.

Really feel for Bradford, we could have been in the same position had we not managed to get out of Wilderspool. Hopefully they can get a new owner on board that can put them on the path to recovery..

We were losing big amounts at Wilderspool due to maintenance costs, and lack of use. I dread to think how much Bradford were losing.

The development of that Coral hospitality stand at the end was a big mistake while leaving most of the rest untouched. When it was clear that they couldn't redevelop Odsal due to cost they should have sold up and moved in with Bradford City. They let the Harris saga drag on, they lost quality players over years and didn't replace them. In the championship they've had far too many players taking the gamble to get back.

Looking at Warrington Sports Holdings last accounts our net worth is £10.53m. Looking at Bradford Bulls Northern Limited from 2014 (no accounts after that) net worth was already minus 668.81k.

It helps that we have an owner with money but the club needs to be sustainable on it's own as well.

They need to start from scratch and build back up.

The club effectively does not exist the fact the rfl will let them start in the championship with a 12point deduction is a scandal. Either a the whole thing is a farce and the liquidation etc has been a smoke screen that the rfl are in on and the intention was always for Bradford to be in the championship and have dumped a load of debt.and the released players will shortly be selectively retained Or B they are so inept that cannot see that they will possibly be relegated and then go down and have to come up again setting them back a year atleast.

I believe Toronto have a better claim to that open spot than any form of Bradford bulls / northern being allowed to rejoin the championship.

Why do you think that Toronto has any sort of claim to start in the Championship, particularly if you believe that Bradford "need to start from scratch"?

Perhaps a more equitable solution would be to offer an open spot to the highest placed relegated team from last season, as it could be argued that their position was in part due to Bradford operating unfairly. If either of those teams felt unable to take up the offer then it should go to the highest none promoted Championship 1 team and if no one takes it up for whatever reason then it would be Bradford on level points then Toronto for me

From what I've read, the reason why Bradford will remain in the championship is because of the upheaval it will cause to rearrange fixtures at this late stage, especially Toronto's.

I can understand why it wouldn't (apart from shouldn't IMO) be workable for Toronto, but, to say to Whitehaven or Workington can you fulfil Bradford's fixtures it shouldn't be that difficult?

I understand that these arrangements take time and the off season might not be long enough to deal with matters fully and I whilst I feel sorry for the Bradford players, staff and supporters, as a sport with a month to go to the new season it should all be clear cut and I'm not sure that it is yet and according to the VT thread it could be as late as the 23rd January before details are confirmed.

This is complete madness unless the RFL and Bradford already have a plan which has to 'go through' certain channels but will be ratified in any event

Well whatever they are going to be it's going to be with less players, 3 of them have already signed for other teams,Salford have Welham Widnes have Olbison and Giants have taken a forward aswell.

Good old promotion and relegation hey!

Unfortunately it's not the first time that this has happened though?

My point about Toronto is that they already have a squad that could compete in the championship.

As I said Bradford being allowed into the championship is just scandalous, it furthers my belief that they have a squad lined up already and this whole thing is to just dump a load of debt and being aided by the rfl.

Well as I said earlier that some players have already moved to new clubs 4 in total so far I believe. I'm wondering what kind of squad they will have and how hard will it be for them to even stay up,other sports (RFU) must be laughing at the farce of this. Just read a 5th as now gone Clare to Leigh.

Yes and on their board the players are being called to odsal today at 4pm to meet new owner.

Speculation that they are not actually in liquidation as of yet as papers not yet submitted, all in all I think this is shambolic and is no different to what a lot of cowboy businesses do go bankrupt n start again under slightly different name to get rid of debt!! And have been aided by the rfl too!!

Should we prevent every team aspiring to get in the top league from doing so? Maybe Toronto Wolfpack will be happy with playing Whitehaven, Doncaster and Keighley for ever.

No. It's survival of the fittest.

Other sports have promotion and relegation and cope. The issue is that RL is ailing so badly that it cannot.

Because presumably Whitehaven and Workington and the rest will have already made their arrangements to travel to Canada, and Bradford obviously won't have done.

I doubt this is all insurmountable, and it sounds a bit like a convenient excuse to me, but I sort of see where they're coming from.

A quick director search shows that Marc Green is not fit to run a bath.

Considering Toronto are backed by a media mogul they could do the game a great deal of good in providing a rival to sky in the bidding war.
Rugby Union is trouncing RL in terms of tv coverage with games being available on sky & BT ,highlights on ITV & BBC for internationals. Getting another tv company interested could do wonders for our game.

Don't talk sense lol

It's not ideal WW but my point was trying to get the fairest most transparent way out of this unfortunate situation.

I don't think as a sport we can hang on till gone the 11th hour with a Bradford club that may or may not be in place and the other proposal that Toronto could be airlifted into the Championship well really? After all what would Whitehaven and Workington do when they turn up in Canada and nobody's home......visit Niagara Falls?

Think it all irrelevant as another as just gone to the Giants,that makes 6 now, I can't see how they will be able to compete in the championship or any division tbh with you. It's a shame what as happened and as I said this started when they were in their pomp that maybe it's just time to call it a day.

I get used to hearing that club X has folded and will disappear to the great stadium in the sky - only to hear later that someone has come in to save them. This time though you may be right. Apparently the club was wound up with debts of £2.2 million and most of their better players as you rightly pointed out, have gone elsewhere. Even if a new club could be formed, surely they would struggle to even raise a team for League 1 at this late stage of the year ?