No. I'll bet nobody was saying that after 60-minutes, having a comfortable lead and all... You may not have noticed, but most of the posts tonight are about the following 20 minutes when our top-of-the-table side conceded 21 points against 12-men. With the incentive of winning silverware. At home.

Taking issue with that and pointing out obvious frailties with our team isn't two-faced, it's realistic. I haven't seen anyone calling for Smith's head (yet), just people saying they think his time is up/they wouldn't mind a change.

Some of this is true - we miss Hill and Clarke, but you can't realistically say we have played well shipping in 21 points in 20 minutes against 12 men. ??

Ahhhhh, the good old "it'll be all right" attitude. That's why we've won sod all for over 4 years.

... We're all entitled to opinions, but, if you think we didn't bottle that........

oh dear.

I was thinking of the likes of Lineham, Asotasi, Blythe etc.

Hemmings said that?

What an odious c### that prat is.

think you blew it tonight, your bench was poor imo, hill is a beast and clark is top class, as an outsider I think Russell maybe isn't a winger but is always a handful, hope you bring a few next week, safe journey and winner takes all

We've won no trophies in 4/5 years, lost big games, finals, semi finals from winning positions due to Smiths inability to see games out and interchange players at the right times. Once is not choking, 5/6 times IS. We have no wingers and therefore lack pace and without Hill, Clark and maybe sandow this year are nothing special. I stand by my statement that our recruitment compared to others has been poor. We have no balance and no consistency. Granted we look good in periods but I'm fed up of underachieving. Finishing 2nd / 3rd shouldnt be classed as a success considering how we have developed as a club.

You are now. I'd sack him and put Murphy in the dugout. I've seen enough of his smug stubborn grin.

I'd still sack him even if we won the GF.

He said it BEFORE the game

Nostradamus Hemmings

Bless NtW with his upbeat Dunkirk spirit but he may have his head in the sand if he thinks that shipping in 21 points in 20 minutes against 12 men to lose the LLS at home in front of a full house is not bottling but the stuff of Superleague Champions.

Tell me - what are we going to change in the next 3 weeks to enable us to develop the mentality, skill under pressure and attitude to win the most intense game of the season? Apparently the loss at Wembley was going to do that for us. LOL.

My point was that you have players many of us would be delighted to watch every week. You are top of the league with one game to go and have some of the best players in the league.

Agreed.... Lions led by a Donkey.

The stage was set beautifully to win a pot on our our ground against one of the poorer Wigan sides in memory and we blew it.

We give Hemmings all the ammunition he needs on the choking front.

A couple of dubious video ref decisions this weekend mean it's all wide open next week. Almost like Sky didn't want the shield sewn up with a week to go. Hmmm. But I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Two teams knocked the fook out of each other tonight which tells me otherwise. I just don't see how we can't close games down when we're seemingly comfortable. I haven't seen a team as rattled as Wigan midway through that second half. There is NO WAY they should have won. Yet we seem to keep opening doors for teams when we should be nailing the friggers shut!

To those saying we're still top with a week to go:
There's no way we should be having to pull our tripe out for that hubcap next week while sky watch on like giddy Roman emperors. We should be sending the kids and enjoying a well earned rest. Scandalous we've played ourselves into this position.

No excuses for the last twenty minutes the game was there just a little guile needed, but no it was Wigan showing how it's done. Well at least I got to see some good wing play if only we had a manager who could recognise a true wingers worth.
In truth with all that space at times we struggled to move the ball about, mainly kicks, following the same path and not enough variation, plenty of effort most of the time but something is missing, not been this disappointed for a while.

I would send the kids anyway with the message to play for their places in the semi-finals and regather. Impossible mission up at Hull after that capitulation tonight.

We played really well until we lost Currie and the momentum changed with those players not on the pitch, so up until the last 20 we did play well.
We were totally in control in the first half, even after given Wigan a try and pigy backing them in the first 10. It comes down to how you define playing well?
For me we played well and fell victim of some naivety. And not played badly/average and were not good enough.

St. Helens 2014?

How often do we see a team get on a roll, and run in points at the end of games? How often does a team go down to 12 men yet it seems to be a catalyst to them turning it around? Some on here seem to think we've some kind of Devine right to win: what I saw tonight was hardly anything to blow the mind. It was a good game of RL I thought, but it's also something people who watch the game regularly, as I'm sure a lot on here do, will have seen plenty of times before, and will see again.

Sure it's disappointing, sure we should have won. But I just don't see this as terminal, either for the LLS or the GF.

Maybe watching us for a long time has mellowed me-I enjoy when we win, I'm disappointed when we lose. But it makes me smile the dramatic swings we get from fans, literally in the space of 20 minutes: in some people's eyes we went from being GF dead certs to dead beats. My view hasn't changed: we're one of 4 teams in with a very equal chance of winning the GF. There will be years to come when we'll crave to be in this position. Maybe it's just me, but I see that as reason to be positive.

I'll shut up now and let the doom and gloom merchants wallow.

I don't think anyone really can bottle it whilst the game is in its second half and you've played well for an hour. You bottle something before it happens in my eyes and don't turn up.

We just took our foot off the gas and couldn't get it back and Wigan just threw caution to the wind and it paid off for them. One of the hardest things in sport is regaining high intensity once you've taken your foot off the gas.

Fair enough opinion. I believe it's terminal but I will hope not obviously. It's a fine line to draw between being eternally positive and "oh well maybe next time" and more critically thinking "perhaps we need a change". Sport is results based, and we are posting a big fat zero in the last 4 years with a long term coach and money to spend.

Tend to agree now as I feel and maybe rightly that TS put all his eggs in one basket tonight, even so I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we have enough to win the GF after tonight.

(I'm a big fan of Penny and would rather a backline of Penny, Atkins, Evans, Russell in the 3/4), but Russell was crucial in playing a part in the bombardment of attack behind the Wigan markers, making Wigan's big pack move. It's all ifs and buts but tactically Russell was a bigger asset in the game plan than Penny. From tonight's play, I can't see where Penny would have made a difference as a winger finishing. The same goes for if we had Charnley on our wing instead of Russell and Evans- it would have made no difference.

By bottling it, I mean making stupid mistakes and panicking, when under pressure in big games. Silly ball steals, wrong attacking options, passing into touch etc. When Charnley scored that one where he managed to get 10 meters closer to the sticks, the sense of panic was palpable.

So realistically we are looking at a 3rd place finish and Wigan away in the semis.