On the recruitment issue TS is being criticised on the back of poor current form but I think a lot of our fans would have been on board with his general approach to building the team.

The succession planning for Briers was in hand a few years ago. We targeted bright young British halfback talent, Myler and Ratchford, got them over in time to have a few years to bed in the team before Briers left. Also brought G'OB through the ranks who we made sure had first team experience by sending him on loan when he was Briers' understudy. So when Briers did retire, we had three British talents ready and well prepared to take over. This might not be working, but the rationale for this made sense. How often before have we seen SL teams just say there is no British halfback talent so lets sign Bruce Didgeridoo from Wee Waa Dingos 3rd grade and let him take the place of a British player, so what TS did was thinking long term about the club and the British game.

Regarding the lack of established player signings in general, we have been quite bullish about our upcoming talent for a couple of years now. How often on here have there been threads "the future's bright the future's Wire" where people list a potential Wire 2017 side made up of the younger current first teamers plus various names from the Academy, and everybody agrees this looks a good side and how proud we are that by then we are likely to have a largely home grown first team. Ben Currie especially was highly rated on here as one of the best young talents since Scully, Glenn Riley is "a beast", Rhys Evans was in demand from RU and if he can stay fit is a superb prospect, Brad Dwyer is another with a big reputation on here. So it could be that the club thought it may have a golden generation coming through and held off on signing with a view to these coming through, in the same way Alex Ferguson didn't replace Kanchelskis, Hughes and Ince he just promoted Beckham, Scholes and Butt.

Remember also that for a while people have been saying we don't look enough at players in the lower leagues where there's a lot of talent. TS went down to Leigh and picked up Chris Hill and he has done the same with Anthony England which was a popular move when he signed. And Matty Russell also on the strength of a couple of games in the World Cup got the fans excited about possibly being one of the signings of the season.

Which is why before the season started there was a lot of optimism on here and people saying that we didn't need to worry about players leaving as we had players who would step up and lots of cover in all the positions, and a move towards a more home grown feel to the team which was seen as a positive direction. Of course now we have lost a few games, everyone is up in arms, but the rationale was something I'm sure a lot of the fans would have agreed with.

The one thing where I think TS/the club has made a mistake is that last season it renewed the contracts of a couple of players that were already showing signs of decline: Atkins and Riley. I am not knocking these guys that have been excellent for us and I usually stick up for them on here but I wonder if we were premature in extending them, especially Atkins till 2017: four more seasons including this.

I personally just think you're all a bit spoilt, and now you're throwing a wobbly because we're not where we want to be. Russell has been great so far, Asotasi has been average, England non existant, but on paper they were good additions, Tony can't force them into good performances, it has to come from them, rarely has an Aussie come over here and performed to their potential for us in their first year.

With losing Morley, Carvell, Hodgson, Briers, and others last year, I will be happy with us making the playoffs, in a year where things are shaky, and build properly next year and hopefully come back firing.

The lower teams stepping it up a gear hasn't helped either, they do not want to be going down at the end of the year and are going all out.

Unfortunately, that part is arguably the most important - For the new signings and young players to bed in properly, your established players need to be at the top of their game... For some bizarre reason, we have chosen to reward players in poor form, or on the decline, with new contracts. As I said before, the renewal of Michael Monaghan's contract is beyond logic.

What does seem to be happening is what many opposition fans warned us would happen - Yes, we had a very good side, but they were an aging bunch and they have all gone on the decline at pretty much the same time. Instead of a clean sweep, we are obviously trying to move players out in different phases, to lessen the impact of this player upheaval, which, at present, isn't working too well.

It also doesn't help that the player we invested huge cash in, to take over from Briers, has turned out to be a dud, but that can be excused because we don't have the power of hindsight to see how Myler was going to develop.

Sally ,some of your comments about happenings at the club mirroring points raised on here are a bit disturbing. I hope TS doesn't get coaching tips & pick his team from reading posts on here.

As has been stated before, the problem has been that even if the replacement of Briers, and the reduction in our overall age had been carefully considered and planned it wasn't implemented well.

Youngsters like Currie and Dwyer were brought into the team for games where the motive wasn;t to blood them but to rest senior players. They were farmed our to other clubs on loan with no apparent plan for assimilating them back into the squad.

Instead we went from being Dads Army to the Bash Street Kids overnight, and some of the youngsters are either out of their depth, out of their comfort zone or have been pushed into this position too soon.

I would like to say, however, that the youngsters are not and never have been the problem, and I don't think I've ever criticised them. The senior players are the issue, and Myler & Ratchford are part of that group. They have collectively and individually failed to lift, support, mentor and guide the new blood through a difficult transition.

You see Morrissey ,there is another potential problem....when these players are on loan at partner clubs are they being coached at that level by partner club staff or doing training at Warrington all week & being coached in our style & to our levels ?
I wonder in a way have we been unlucky with the way the reserve set up throughout the league was disrupted last season which then coincided with us losing so many key players & having a lack of seasoned pros.

Yes, I absolutely agree. With the best will I'd imagine that players out on loan or on dual-reg are having limited exposure with the staff and players at Warrington. No disrespect to the coaches at Bradford, Swinton, Wakefield etc. but do we really know that when someone goes on loan they are getting the ideal coaching, prep etc.? I'd suggest not.

Focussing on the youngsters is a red herring. We have a huge gap in age between the 'thirty somethings', teetering on the edge of retirement, and youngsters like Laithwaite, Dwyer and Evans x2. You are talking about a gap of 13-14 yrs. It's not even likely that these kids (even if they make the grade) are going to suddenly become seasoned veterans like Carvell, Monas, Morley. So to maintain continuity as a top 4 side, you don't look to this age group, you look at the group in the mid to late twenties, and hope the youngsters below continue to develop and gain that all-important experience.

Our big problem is the ( too large) group of 30+ players that are retiring now. We will be forced into the market to plug the gap.

You're seriously suggesting that full-time Warrington players who go on dual-registration with Swinton (today's players being O'Brien and Riley) don't continue to train full-time with Warrington?

Don't you realise Swinton are a part time team that trains in the evening using Warrington's facilities at Padgate?

Do you think the club says to O'Brien and Riley "you're at Swinton this weekend so don't bother coming into training this week during the day just come in Tuesday evening for fitness session and then Thursday evening to run through a few plays with Ian Watson and his Swinton lads".

Quite honestly most of the stuff that people post on here these days is unbelievable, it would seem that Rubber Duckie is dragging anybody else down to his level.

Not everyone...there one person who's posting I cannot stoop so low too.
Yours. Pathetic.
If you took a little time to even read the posts you discredit, you'll note none of them are from me.

Is this the point that PY quotes all the posts he means for clarification.

Win your next 3 games (very possible and im sure as fans that will be the aim) and you'll probably be 3rd in the league and the last 8 of the cup. Don't think you or Wigan were ever going to start well this year but improve as the season goes on. Just some perspective. Fwiw I think TS has done a good job at wire and I find it laughable that there's suggestions he inherited Cullen's team / work.

Well he did strictly inherit PCs team but you were fooookin miles away from being a top 4 side!

I know its easy to say this when I'm a fan of another club , but its still early season you might be in a much better position form and results wise come september

We will win more than we lose I reckon but there is very little improvement left in this team.
I think that is the standard of where we're at. This season heading the mid table aiming for a home game in the play offs.

Our worries are not about this season as we'll not be relegated, but next season.
Without wholesale change very early and the most intense pre season we've ever had.
I see Warrington going to struggle to make the cut when SL1 splits to a top 8 format after 11 rounds or whatever it is.

Our league positions is 7th I think. And 2 wins over Easter may give a few out there a sense of better fortune has arrived but it's a false reflection and it wont kid me.

Yes people, there is a very strong chance that Warrington the only team to have continually played at the top level, to find themselves as a 2nd tier side.

Best overreaction yet.

Wire will improve as the year goes on and will be strong coming into the playoffs. It takes time to learn to play without someone like Briers, especially with a new full back too.

Agreed!!!

to be fair, you do constantly post utter drivel though.

Knock knock knock....
Helloooooo [echo

I totally agree that I stated something to an extreme, and I hope I'm completely wrong.

I did however say without wholesale change!!!

Do you honestly think there can be enough improvement in this side this season to win SL?...
To finish in a top four place?...
To finish in a top 6 place then?....

I'd go with top 6 with some confidence.

I've been reading some of your comments on odds and even you lot want odds of double the 7/1 on offer, 12/1-14/1, 15/1! So a little less irony from one or two perhaps?

I do not have complete confidence that next season as this team stands currently we would not have covered enough ground to make us into a team that is challenging for top position.
Yes we'll improve but can that not be relative across the board?!

Get you heads out of the sand and smell the custard.

I don’t believe the team to be transitional either, you listen to TS and how he keeps defending the team saying 'how not far off' we are!
This is his his team!

I said it at the start if the season and so did Sally Cinnamon, the team is lacking in two key areas!

I've every confidence they will be a reaction v widnes and a great chance to win both games at Easter and move up into the 6!
And that's about where we are in terms of our season.

Now you tell me with all honesty that in 12 months time after game 11 with this side as it stands, we wont have squeaky bums!!!!

Thank you at last somebody talking sence!

I've got to agree Chaz, we shouldn't be wondering about so many young/new lads all in one go and that's the disappointing thing for me we hung on for a year too long for a GF tilt and we aren't out of the 'ageing player woods' yet.

Without stating the obvious, we will have quite a few seniors that will be another year older next year and before folk think I've gone a bit 'rubber duckie' a year older when you're 32 in sport isn't the same as when you're in your mid-late 20's

Reading your posts you'd be lucky!
utter dirge

Is it not all about form, i think that at the minute we have a number of key players not in form Myler, Ratchford, Higham, Monas (joel), atkins, bridge all with poot form, soem are getting better (Atkins). With a full squad all in form that all have shown over the last few years, we will be completing for the GF.
"What is the saying form is temporary but class is permanant"
Wait and see !!!