Be interesting to hear the views of the players who left under a cloud while Smith was here. Likewise Ben Harrison of which things have never been explained.

We had a winning culture, which disappeared when a huge chunk of that culture left.

We now have a culture we need shut of. We all know big changes are required, which includes an overhaul of both squad and coaching staff. If that means loyal, well liked, hard working people such as Penny, Blythe, Sims, or (going off Mather's comments) Agar, have to move on, then it's unfortunate but necessary.

Maybe Agar was wrong place, wrong time, maybe he wasn't good enough, maybe we'd have been in relegated if not for him. Who knows.

With that, I'm glad Agar has a new coaching role in Aus to head off to, and I wish him + his family good luck and all the best.

As an outsider the treatment of Brett Hodgson and in different ways Penny and Harrison have always puzzled me. And without any explanation left me concerned at the time.

Well said,the club has been on the slide since 2013 ,masked by the poor quality around us & i think the directors should have noticed our plight sooner & questioned the playing & coaching methods. It is a business with their money invested in it.

So finishing first in the league and reaching the final of both competitions is part of a slide?

To argue that is to say black is white.

To justify that by saying the whole league was poor is to somehow put the shortcomings of the game as a whole at Warrington's door.

No denying this season has been a car crash however not to acknowledge the successes (whilst not actually managing the ultimate prize) is to my mind churlish.

As for Agar I hear lots of good things from people within the game about him. There is no doubt he is highly respected by his peers and players under him. Just as there is no doubt that his results don't reflect this.

Anyway leave that there; just got a text.

There was a debate about this a while back when I posted a graph, some agreed, some disagreed. But for me, we were/are on a slide when you look over a period of not just one season, with the Sandow shaped blip being 2016.

2011 - 1st
2012 - 2nd
2013 - 2nd
2014 - 5th
2015 - 6th
2016 - 1st
2017 - 9th

It's not the same as saying black is white.

Mathers has opened up a can of worms.
1000% not Rich but he knows why things weren't right...
Come on Richie tell us.

What makes it more puzzling for me is Smith's interest in sports psychology. He used to work alongside Damian Hughes in early days at the club (and at Leeds), who I'm an admirer of his work. Did Hughes stop working with us at some point as it could explain a few things.

I know a little about Psychology. Not much, and probably why I too cannot explain “Dec needs to be dropped as he’s not performing up to standard” when Brown and the rest of the team were equally as bad. And also “Hughes is the fist name on my team sheet even when he’s played terribly all season - he trains well all week”.

Perhaps he should have kept the psychologist so he didn't fall out/ get fed up with the sport. I can't see how that wouldn't affect his role as Head of Rugby. If heart isn't in it, it'll shape all your actions.

Gone to St George as announced on Fox sports.....

I guess we owe them one for the world club series defeat......

I dont recall Agar saying he had lost interest in the game like Smith has. Agar has gone to one of the biggest clubs in Aus which could be viewed as a promotion. Maybe like some have implied, he has been Smiths fallguy and not the main problem we have all concluded.

I don’t know whether Agar is a good or bad coach. But, as you say the buck stops with Smith.

What we can be sure of is those at the club know him best and he didn't get the head coach position.

Impossible to make any conclusions from that. Who is to say we did not offer him the role but he saw an NRL assistant job as a bigger promotion?

No way could he be given the job no matter how good he was. He was tarnished with this seasons failures by association even if it was all Smiths fault. It would have been impossible for the club to sell Agar as head honcho to the fans.

Where is this "Agar was really brilliant" it was all Tony's fault" message coming from?

Richie mathers on twitter basically.


Richard Mathers
5 Oct
Don't care what anyone says, HUGE loss to the club, absolutely works his socks off, best rugby brain/knowledge & is an OUTSTANDING coach/man

Richard Mathers @RichardMathers
5 Oct
Replying to @fastpug
Not my place to. All im saying is Rich Agar is a brilliant coach, worked unbelievably hard, players loved him and ANY criticism is WAY off.

Richard Mathers @RichardMathers
5 Oct
Replying to @fastpug
Your completely entitled to your opinion but your so far off the mark. Hell of a lot of reasons but Agar 1000% wasn't one of them

Ah yes, anything else other than this to counter the reasonable body of evidence that we saw in the 2017 season?

Smith saying he couldn't be bothered anymore and never led sessions suggests he needed to go a while ago. Heard good things about Agar. But good raps doesn't always result in good trophy cabinets.

You wouldn't expect anyone from within the club to say anything different, true or not.

Is it like TS said, every week everything went well until the players crossed the white wash?

I think the main problem is that they DIDN’T cross the whitewash?!

So.....
we have a superb stadium
Superb training facilities
A superb academy set up
Pre season training in tenerife
A wealthy owner plus a wealthy director.
The pick of most superleague stars contracted or not.
A number of International players.
Large enthusiastic crowds supporting the team.

But we were still bobbins
If it wasn't the coaching staff then what was it ?
Maybe player welfare has been in a terrible state. ....maybe Mathers should have gone instead.

Either way I'm struggling to see where those 'Hell of a lot of reasons ' are....

no no no..... the clubs in turmoil dont you know?

rotten to the core etc.....