I don't buy into thia one. Toa was one of the bewtter defensive centre's! Strong and physical, very rarely got rounded by an opponent. Personally, i think the only thing that let Toa down was a lack of service, especially in his second stint with Michael Sullivan as his pivot.

Jamie Durbin was the biggest let down for me, loads of potential, wasted! But you could put Craig Wingfield, Chris Causey, Warren Stevens, Jamie Stenhouse, Mark Hilton, Gary Hulse, Brent Grose, Dean Gaskell etc in that bracket.

i cannott believe john woods or joe ropati have been mentioned in this thread,shocking.

When...?

Ask Steve Renouf when he comes out of his coma

I remember that night well..Think he hit Renouf round the head 3 times in about 10 minutes before the ref sent Toa off...

To the other posters i do realise he finished our top scorer a couple of times i'm not questioning his attacking play its his defence that needed work...

And i agree Toa never used to get rounded probably because he smacked everyone round the head when they tried it....

Ronnie Kettlewell.

How the hell John Woods gets a mention in this thread is beyond me

gareth davies

The question wasn't whether Woods was a world class player, which obviously he was, but did he underachieve for Warrington based on expectations and his ability? It was at the tail end of his career.

Personally i wouldn`t say that John Woods under achieved at Warrington because he wasn`t really given the chance to achieve anything due to the quality of players that we were limited too, its a bit like Matt Le Tissier at Southampton where Le Tissier stood out virtually every week but he was surrounded by mainly journey men and never will be`s.

Its like with Valentino Rossi, you can have all the talent in the world but if you put him on a vespa or a Honda C90 bog seat what would he achieve ? Your up against it in any sport if your not surrounded by the best players or the best equipment.

I`d say that John Woods played to his full potential, its just the finances at Warrington back in those days didn`t allow us to compete with the likes of Wigan and Widnes, would Paul Sculthorpe have won Man Of Steel twice if he had remained at Warrington ? John Woods needed a bigger club to be successful as far as honours and medals goes, its credit to him that he stood out on a very regular basis in some very average Warrington sides.

My take on LEE Penny, was that he "hit the ground running". He started as a very good fullback, who, as posters have since alluded to, was a strong returner of the ball, dependable, good try scorer etc, he just never "kicked on" in his career, which, undoubtedly, he should have. He should have been knocking on the International door to give Radlinski a bit of competition for the No 1 jersey.
I was actually a big Lee Penny fan, apart from the fact he NEVER passed the ball (last game at Wilderspool v Wigan, anybody....he blew at least 3 try scoring oportunities by him not passing to unmarked players, which would have resulted in tries that even Andy Currier would have bagged. We lost by 2 points that day).

It's not as though Woods was surrounded by crap players though is it, who was in the team in those days...Boyd, Tamati, Jackson, Roberts, Mike Gregory, Sanderson, Johnson, Ropati, Ford, Cullen, Blake. It was a useful side.

Just in case anyone has forgotten, John Woods holds a Championship winners medal from 1982. When with the 'massive' club of Leigh.

Add Drummond, Roach and Davidson to that list.....To be fair, Woods was very good for us. He often carried an under-performing side.

My own personal memory of how good he was, was when he turned up with a seemingly inferior Bradford Northern side in the 86/87 Challenge Cup to take on a Wire side who were Wigan's main rivals for most of that year.....80 minutes later, Wilderspool was in shock after Woods almost single handedly tore us apart....I think that performance sealed his move to the Primrose & Blue 3 months later.

I think you make my point for me. In retrospect we can see Woods' best years (and performances?) were behind him when we signed him. I agree Leigh were by no means 'massive' but managed to do something we have singularily failed to do for the last 56 years.

I knew this subject was controversial and I have no real axe to grind on John Woods. It was more a conversation point. So many other "big names" have failed to deliver in the PnB a lot more. I would add Gleeson to that list (for reasons of attitude rather than ability) together with Roach to name but two.

Davidson did well for us, earning himself a stint at Wigan with his performances....Steve Roach was the letdown, only bucking up his ideas after Les Boyd returned mid season and aparently gave him a dressing down.

Terry Holmes had a stormer in that game as well

I kind of see what you mean now, but I think, given that Woods was at the end of his career he did well for us. Langer is (rightly) feted for his end of career spell with us, and I'd argue Woods did as well, if not better, than could have been expected.

Davidson was awesome in his time with us. Roach was diabolical. Blake was great in his first spell, less enamoured of him the second time when he decided he was a half-back.

I will probably regret this, but given we're on controversial conversation points, I'd suggest that Les Boyd only really put it in when it mattered to him, i.e. when he was up against a Sorensen or such like. Not a criticism as such, just an observation, as I rarely remember him tearing it up against the likes of Oldham, Featherstone or Swinton. Mind you, I'm getting on.

Sorry I meant Roach rather than Davidson. I'm getting old too.

Didn't Boydie once get 4 tries in a match against Barrow iirc(I think it was in the JPS trophy 85/86. The following day, I'm sure the draw was on Breakfast Time and they #@c%ed it up by putting Barrow in the bag, when we'd beat them. They re-did the draw and we got the Pies, who beat us).

IMO, Boydie never gave less than he could, not the same for Mr Roach, who, before Boyd came back, was lazier than Dylan from the Magic Roundabout

I was going to mention Tony Myler in this thread too Rob.
If you did a poll of todays fans of who the best Stand offs were in the last 30 odd years you can guarantee people would:

A)Name Shaun Edwards top,
B)laugh at the notion of Lee Briers being named
C)not even Mention Tony Myler

please don't laugh at me

Tony Myler was the best british stand off i have seen in the game in my lifetime. what also helped him was having david hulme next to him in the halves (granted this was towards the end of his career but thats when i first started watching rugby)... the guy was a work horse and a very clever player to boot.... he didn't have the class or ball skills of myler... but he knew when to give him the ball.. and he knew when something was about to happen.

i remember my grandad taking me to watch widnes when i was a lad... they were playing bradford northern at home... widnes were 0-10 down and had a scrum near there own line... hulme put the ball in the scrum... he got it out and passed it to myler, who reversed direction and chipped the ball over the top of the scrum... he then ran round the scrum, catching the ball on the full.. he then threw a 20 meter pass on his inside, cutting out the fullback to alan tait, who came onto it at full steam.. he caught the ball about 25 yards from his own line and went full length of the pitch under the posts.... bradford players will all looking around to see where the ball was.... greatest try ive ever seen at a game.... widnes came back to win that game by over 40 points and myler was at the heart of everything.... the timing and accuracy of his passing was exceptional.... a truly great player to watch in the flesh.

Quote ="the flying biscuit" C)not even Mention Tony Myler'" Even though he was a Widnes player most genuine fans appreciate class and thats what both Tony Myler and John Woods were. Some great footage of Tony Myler in action below, pitty we don`t have similar where you can watch some of our past players in action. www.youtube.com/watch?v=snRJtiJhjXw

Quote ="the flying biscuit" C)not even Mention Tony Myler'" Even though he was a Widnes player most genuine fans appreciate class and thats what both Tony Myler and John Woods were. Some great footage of Tony Myler in action below, pitty we don`t have similar where you can watch some of our past players in action. www.youtube.com/watch?v=snRJtiJhjXw

Widnes Tv...eh great clips on Myler I clicked on the kurt Sorenson clip hoping to see him taking boyd on. Instead I got the most unremarkable 1 minute 33 seconds ive seen.

his "best" moment was punching Wire Hooker Tony Hodgson just as 'Benny' was gaining his feet while playing the ball...! and that one split second summed up everything about THE biggest toilet ever to wear a rugby shirt it was a collection of high collar grabs and not one decent big hit....

god i'd forgot about him!