I made a point on the Leeds board earlier this week that the key issue could be age. Myler was 23/24 the first year when Briers retired, was too much expected too soon? Luke Gale won a MOS at 29, where was he at 23/24? McGuire was successful at that age in 2007 but he was a supporting HB running in tries, he had Sinfield by his side and wasn't the more complete game managing HB he showed in GF wins of 2015 & 2017 even though he'd made impacts in GF's before then.

Not just a Warrington problem but is the game here too quick to write off a HB if he isn't the complete article before 24/25? Sinfield and McGuire were still winning GF's at 34/35. Lee Briers was 27 in 2005, look at what he did after that age.

I'm not sure halfbacks get written off early over here. Myler and McGuire have both been first choice SL halfbacks every season since they were 19. Whatever questions Myler had over him he still was first choice in his position.

The interesting question is, why are Aussie halfbacks able to come in and lead top level teams from a young age, when English players don't seem to have anything like the same ability to run a team at the same age and take much longer to mature. Mitchell Pearce was NSW halfback from the age of 19; Todd Carney, Cooper Cronk and Michael Morgan were first choice halfbacks from the age of 20-21; Jonathan Thurston was Queensland halfback from 22. You even see when young Aussie halfbacks get put in front of the media to do interviews, they are much more articulate and confident and you can see why they can command respect of their older teammates, whereas the English lads just shrug and grunt and reel out cliches about completing us sets and that.

The Aussie system also found a way to keep guys that took a bit longer to develop. Daly Cherry-Evans didn't make his first grade debut till age 22, but he was player of the year in the Queensland Cup for Manly's feeder team and then was in the Kangaroo side at the end of his rookie NRL season. James Maloney didn't become an NRL regular till age 24 but he had been proving himself in the NSW cup competition.

I know it doesn't help that we have closed the reserve team but SL reserve team would be nothing like the breeding ground for a young halfback that the Queensland or NSW cups are.

McGuire always had Sinfield though. Would McGuire of 2007 have been able to come into Warrington of 2014 and been able to replace Briers. Them being first choice in their positions is easy when they had much more experienced partners.

Interesting that McGuire last played for England aged 26 in 2009 yet became a much more complete HB and didn't get a look in as he was already deemed a flop at international level although he continued to be a key guy in his club winning trophies. Myler not been in contention since he was 22.

Yes Australia can produce more complete HB's at a younger age but does that mean we should write off any that don't live up to expectations at the same age? 27 with the potential of another 7/8 seasons can still do an awful lot.

So how long do we persevere with Patton? He's off contract end of this season.

He has a big few months ahead of himself doesn't he? Problem being without injuries he could spend all of that time either playing 10 min spells for Clark, or down at Rochdale.

I don't think any other side would come in for him at this stage, so I'd guess he will get another 1 / 2 year contract here. If he gets a shot this year, he really needs to step up.

The best thing imo is let them go to a lower placed SL team or even top championship team. Where would Gale be if he spent 2/3/4 years around 2007-2011 at Leeds in the reserves as backup? Let them go and play rugby, better for the player, better for the sport, only one it hurts is the club who let him go who could always sign him back if they depart on good terms.

Patton can learn of Roberts, Patton stays for me.
Still reading knockers dream team Atkins for one brain fart even if it's allowed on this topic.
What is ever present Hughes going to have to do to get a break. He was pretty decent vs Leeds.
If a bloke gets a knocking at least let him be deserving of it.

Slowing down because he lazily assumed Ratchford would tackle Hall good enough?

Not because he had the nouce to know he wouldn't catch the current England international winger then?
Possibly to reserve energy that might help snatch a win late on??

But he pretty much did catch him even with the hesitation, so NO his 'nounce' isn't an excuse. He most likely would have caught him without that error of lazy judgement. If he knew he wouldn't catch him and was saving energy why did he bust a gut to get back after Ratchford missed?

You honestly think Hughes thought in that split second was about "saving energy".....give over. Accept he slipped up and he could've done better.

You're right it was all hughes' fault. Definitely not ratchford. Why aren't you saying if ratchford had managed to just slow hall down a bit (never mind attempt a tackle) hughes would have caught him? Ratchford made a howler, Thursday definitely wasn't his one of his best, hughes was fairly solid, he has limitations but I think there is a lot more that can come from him.

My biggest gripe with hughes last season was that when he got the ball you knew it was a tackle and move over, he just wouldn't release it. Sort that out and we have 2 very good second rows. We need to learn to use our assets better, Roberts will improve and the team will learn to use BMM and he will learn to time his runs. It wasn't a great start but there is a long way to go yet, our backs are a bit weak but we can shuffle a bit hopefully.

Oh without doubt Ratchford is most to blame but those praising Hughes might want to watch it back before praising his chase back. He assumed Ratchford would get the job done and that's what stopped him eventually catching Hall.

Contrast Atkins' dive no try. Yes all the focus has been on his error of judgment but you watch the reply back of it and see how Parcell goes AROUND BMM after he's passed the ball to get to Atkins.

Shouldn't you be more concerned about Hall being chased down by a 2nd row?

Here's pessimism for you and it won't be far off either
I said last year we'd struggle to win any of the first 6 games and I'm going to go one better played 7 , lost 7 how's that for a call?
It will take along time to gel that lot ,if that's possible
Another bad season and it's bye bye our top players

Have you ever considered a career as a motivational speaker? If you'd have been around 2000 years ago Jesus would probably have binned off this son of god stuff as too much effort, and got a job as a donkey salesman.

Is this one of those "if I'm wrong I'm happy, and if I'm right I'm a prophet" style posts?

To be fair it is the pessimism thread.

It definitely fits the bill.

Well said
It's my opinion as is everyone's is on this site so wind your necks in....

....shouldn't we be winding them out though?

I've never known why people get so het up when they find they don't agree with a viewpoint. They seem to want to stifle it, ridicule, insult and then ban users and that is what causes the division amongst us all. I am hoping that in 2018 there can be more harmony and tolerance on here.

I was looking forward to watching you beat Widnes in a couple of weeks ... talking of pessimism ... Widnes 40 Catalans 12.

Not sure why there is an issue? Wire fans were notoriously pessimistic pre TS and then at the end of his reign, but predicting 7 losses is quite a leap. Hence my question.

We'll win our next two games IMO and if so I'd have took 2/3 beforehand.

I hope you're right.

Then we play Wigan at home in game 4, with Wigan only having had a 6 day turnaround from playing South Sydney in Aus...