The ref didn't necessarily instill a slow PTB. It seemed that when Saints were running it up against us, every time the Saints player hit the deck he'd shout "Move!" to the Wire player to let him get up and play it. It seemed they done a good job of holding us up them bringing us down eventually, slowing play up and making our play look flat. I actually think the 'flop' seems a thing of the past in Super League, just like the sin bin (I didn't think the ref was particularly bad, but Wellens and Hohaia (sp) were particularly late with their 'support'). Our plan when there's a slow PTB seems to be to play the same way, which is incredibly frustrating as we saw tonight. As I said before, for me we should just resort to the basics to grind teams down, once we get them worn down a little, the freedom in the collision should come naturally, instead of forcing the issue and conversely turning the momentum against us.

The game against Widnes shouldn't be taken lightly, but, in the same sense, it could be a game used to get a few players back up to full confidence before a grim one against Catalans. The game against Widnes could also be a good game to drop a few of the under-performers, assuming we have some reasonably sized forwards in the U20s asking for games.

The mindset of the Wolves was all wrong from the start. It's a job for Tony Smith, now is the moment he earns his corn.
Worst game sine Bronchos a couple of years ago..

correct best team won I havent doubted that, but the Saints fan thinks they were back to the entertainers of old offloading at will and scoring tries from those offloads which is complete rubbish.

They scored from OUR offloads and when they started to offload it gave us possession and a window back into the game.(which we couldnt capitalise on)

what did they create from their own territory?
what had you thinking jesus we cant live with these halfbacks they are ripping us to bits?

due to our own mistakes we were bum banged nothing sour in that. If you think that was the complete rugby performance from Saints then I worry for you............

You mean the Broncos nadir 2009 2nd game for Tony? You are right he has his 2nd challenge withe the wire. I trust him though he will know we were bobbins. I just wish we hadn't lost against them at home.

Saddened gives a very fair assessment. I actually thought our pack was better than the saints pack in terms of winning the contact, it was just the repeated brain farts that constantly gave them possession (for the fourth game in a row, which is worrying). Without James Roby, that saints pack would be truly spineless, he was superb again tonight. Though the less said about our backs, the better...

If I were Tony Smith, I would be tempted to lobotomise the whole squad instead of normal training this week. Maybe they'll learn how to catch the ball!!

Biscuit as far as I am concerned we gave the game away on a silver platter for the reasons you rightly outline. And no we have faced far better Saints sides and given a better account of ourselves in the past. They struggled when we played but made the most of it when we didn't (50 mins)

If saints fans think they can easily beat wire on our own midden then in current parlance they can. If we think we are a better side than Saints we need to make a GF simple as, and do it for the next 5 years,

As a neutral watching the game I thought saints were outstanding in defence and very good in attack , warrington in first 20 minutes lost the game through ball retention , but after that there wasn't much in the teams , you wires fans are very much like the leythers its always we were e and the opposition werent much better, warrington are a gud side but so are saints admit it they will be there or there about at the end of the season they are starting to look like st Helens of old.

I am a very realistic person. I'll always honestly say how good a team has played. Saints were only quite good last night; they didn't need to be any better. The Wire were appalling, all 15 teams in SL would have beaten us last night as everything we conceded came from our own mistakes. If it was down to a really good performance that we couldn't live with like Wigan in the cup last season, I'd say so, but last night wasn't that.

Of course Saints are a good team, it was just lack of organisation, lack of leadership and poor form early this season. But Saints will never be the Saints of old, it's a new Saint Helens now...still very good mind.

That was just like the saints of old, it was as if Cunningham and long were out there. Having said that, we were playing into their hands with the number of mistakes we made. We were lucky to b eat Wakey playing like that recently.

The most worying part for me is that the players and Smith know what the problems are but can't seem to remedy them.

What was Carvell doing? Not fair to just pick on him though, plenty more had stinkers.

I like to watch both Warrington and Saints on the box and was really looking forward to a good close game.
What a disappointment!
I found myself shouting at the TV every time Warrington messed up. And worse than that then never learned a thing in the first half in terms of not committing the same stupid offloads as Carvell so beautifully demonstrated.
They were rank!

Warrington were much better in the second half but had too much to do.

Myler is OK when he latches onto a pass and goes clear, but I don't see what else use he is.

Roll on Saints vs Wigan.

Back to normality against saints - hurts doesn't it?



"It's always your year, it's always your year, just like the last one, it's always your year"

The arrogance of some Warrington fans is quite frankly hilarious: why can't you just accept the fact that we outplayed you?

You talk about the fact that you gifted us the game, but what you are failing to grasp is the fact that we punished your mistakes - which it takes a good side to do. You can only play the game in front of you and we didn't really have to make thousands of yards etc as you gifted us that territory instead. You made the same errors last week against Wigan, yet they didn't punish you and you managed to get the two points.

To me it seemed that Warrington were in a state of panic last night which led to silly errors. You've not been great for a few weeks but it'll come: Tony Smith is a good coach.

I am glad a neutral backs up what we think. We beat ourselves last night, pure and simple. When we actually started to respect possession and get to the end of the sets Saints started to look pressured. In fact if the game hadn't been broken up by that clash of heads we may have carried on the momentum to win the game.

The failure to learn from errors was astonishing to see in the first half!

So player power is alive and well at Saints?...The senior players led by Wilkin got Royce the boot... Similar to the Chelsea players John Terry and co...

Spot on, We should go back to basics some of the tricks that worked for us last year just aint, good example is charging down the kicker , First Set that Saints had Monas charged the ball and they came up with another set, so you would think the word would go out but Riley does exactly the same thing and again repeat set for them.
Briers came out of the line for his typical interception 4 times and missed so again stop it.
As for offloads etc they have been well documented on here.

For me back to basics for the next few matches get on top of the opposition and then once we have some points and field position ....do what they want.

Typical performance from us again this season. Trying impossible offloads before we've gained dominance in the forwards only this time we threw in another way to lose possession, charge downs, just when we are 95% going to get the ball we decided to make it a 50- 50 lottery. i think there is an arrogance in the team that has decided they can defend against anyone for as long as required. we have got away with it with 'poorer' sides but you can't carry that attitude into games with the better teams and win. The crumb of comfort was what barrie mcdermott said in fulltime, Leeds were exactly the same last season, overplaying everygame and they ended up champions, and he was right.

We should go back to what we did in quite a few games last season. Tough it out early on in the forwards who will get on top by grinding out the sets & building pressure on the opposition. Eventually they crack which opens the way to play expansive rugby.

Do the basics first!!

It's obvious isn't it. And until we do go back to laying the platform in the forwards teams are just going to continue to play simple low risk rugby against us and wait for our mistakes.

Agreed. Whats annoying me more than anything today was how blase everyone was in a game which meant so much to the fans. A 15k crowd and they play like that? I can't get my head round it.

As said, back to basics against Widnes and then bring out the party tricks if we're in control.

I remember when Saints were good, they used to build a 12-18 point lead before they started throwing it about. We seem intenet on proving how "flashy" we are in the first minute. We average 17 errors a game, 8 more than our nearest challenger. That is a very bad stat.

Biscuit you are spot on.

That Saints side weren't as bad as as when they played Hull but they weren't the Saints of old either.

THE BETTER TEAM WON! I feel i need to stress that but it is quite simple, without the offloads in our own twenty that gifted Saints 18 points in the first 20 mins and with Brett catching a ball once in a while and we sneak another win. It is that simple.
Positives for Saints from last night
* Roby is a top two hooker and the very embodiment of SAints (without him you ARE screwed)
*The ref allowed waaaay too much to go
* Confidence
Well done Saints, and it pains me to say that, but that performance won't win you anything this season. You have proven you are capable of improvement and maybe Leeds and then Wire having the worst games of their season will give you confidence for Wigan, and if you win that nothing should stop you, but the difference between who won that game and who lost that game last night is a pertinent question. Warrington lost but Saints didn't win it.

Hopefully the competition will be better in August (No one wants to see a poor contest)

P.S Note to Tony Smith; Drop Wood and Carvel for Widnes. They lost us the game and have been poor for some weeks.

We need HArrison and Ratch and Solo back. We really aren't the same with so many injured bodies.

Also Thanks Wire for making me lose a lucrative bet.

Lets be honest we haven't looked great all season and have played a couple of get out of jail cards in the last few weeks. Its like the team think they can play crazy football and be 20 points up in the first 20 mins.

Really speaking the Wakefield game should have set alarm bells ringing...2 weeks ago & the team have done nothing about it.

I'd go back to the Hull k.r game.

I wouldn't say it was orchestrated like at Chelsea, I'm sure there was no conscious effort to get him sacked. It was more them growing frustrated with Royce's tactics and losing their way a bit, struggling to carry out his gameplan.