Spot on lefty. I have a season ticket but over the last few years there have been home games where I have been really close to not bothering to go just because it is not appealing as it was. That is not about big name aussie players or people like briers.
Last week's game was far from entertaining but the last 5 mins should have been exciting but strangely It wasn't.

I know we should be entertaining in attack but 4 / 5 years ago I was also entertained by our defence. We used to knock the ball out in a legitimate tackle a couple of times a game (without shoulder charges) but I would be surprised if we have done that twice in the first 10 games. When was the last time we saw a gang tackle and somebody pushed (not dragged) into touch. When was the last time we made a tackle 5 yards out but forced the attacker in goal.

I could go on all day about our attack.

Having said all that I think we could win big today but If we did I suspect it would be more "mechanical" than entertaining.

can't argue with any of that.

a 58 point win will see us romp above Saints................

Smith out.

we just need to score 72 unanswered points now in the last 30 mins

I'll take 14 now if on offer.

I can totally sympathize with the points you make Lefty.

I've found it increasingly difficult (until this season) to find the motivation to get to games, purely driven by the style of play now on offer.

I think we were lucky on a couple of fronts through 2011 and 2012: our style of play was brilliant to watch, and in the main it was successful. I could stomach the lack of GF wins (even though I thought we 'deserved it'), purely as we were fun to watch.

However, the rot had already set in for much of Super League by then, with the dual effect of dropping standards (driven by fewer and lower quality imports), and a change in the style of play. We were saved from this by a coach who encouraged open play and players who embraced it and had the skills to exploit it.

Since then, we've lost those players, not been able to replace them with
adequate alternatives (I don't lay the blame for this on the club, as I'm not sure who else we could have brought in: quality options just don't seem available), and had to adapt our style both to contend with other teams and their changed approach, and utilize the players we have; I don't think this is Smith's natural style (it's not how we played under him at first, or Leeds before that), but I don't think he's had any other choice given available resource.

Now we have no forwards who can offload like Solomona, Carvell, etc, our halves have little creative flair, and our backs (apart from
Atkins) seem devoid of any real attacking prowess. We still have some good players, relative to their peers in SL, but the nature of the game has changed and the standard has dropped. I reckon Saints in 2014 were by a distance the worse team I've ever seen be crowned champs; things have improved a bit since then, but not much.

We've remained competitive through this period which has retained some interest, and for me personally this year has offered the chance to get my eldest daughter interested in the sport. But I largely have little interest in many neutral games now as the entertainment Lefty refers to just isn't there.

With any luck Cas can do something this year to change the view on how to win; ideally Wigan will bomb too, to prove the alternative doesn't work, but I fear the bad will out, and the current vogue will continue for a while yet.

This for me is a stronger reason to switch away from Smith than the fact we haven't won a GF under him, or lost our first 6 this year. I no longer remain convinced he is the best man to lead the players likely to be at his disposal to victory in a league played under these type of conditions.

I expect (hope?!) this is just a phase and the game will evolve back into something worthy of being called entertainment again, as dummy half scoots and 'attacking kicks to the corner' really don't float my boat.

I've been feeling the same for the last two years now. Just can't be d at all. Went to Catalan away and been to Leeds at home but that's all this year. I'm still "interested" as will watch on TV but the whole game just isn't interesting me as much as it used to. I used to wake up on game day looking forward to the game but lately I just couldn't really care less. Thought it was just me getting old but obviously I'm not the only one feeling like this.

Not just Warrington, super league in general is poor at the minute. The recent salary cap changes won't make a dent in the problem either.

Sad.

This ^^^

I like Smith and I've enjoyed what he's done for us. However in sport every so often a full 'reset' is what's needed and a whole new and fresh approach. Even with last years exploits, the team didn't look like a champion team, and 2015 / 2017 have showed that Smith is unlikely to repeat the glory years with the team he's built himself.

I feel bad saying that, but I feel it's the truth. Who is out there to replace him? I really don't know. The good young British coaches are now tied down to good deals at their respective clubs. Maybe time to take a punt on an untested Aussie assistant? Would wait until the end if the season of course, to ensure we at least stay up this season. The downside of that is that there's nothing left to look forward to this season - I expect an early exit from the cup and a finish in 8th/9th as the only game we've won convincingly was against Leeds and even then it was touch and go for a period.

Probably where you are now... again.

Actually that's not very fair.. there is a large section of this board that would like a new coach.... and they have been consistent in saying the same things after victories and after defeats.

So they haven't really gone anywhere. Not really the same story for the people on the other side of the fence, so to speak.

Here's what's not very fair, the posters that try to eek out ANY form of positivity, or clutch onto ANY glimmer of hope are labelled ostriches, superfans and happy clappers, whereas most of these posters have tried to take a balanced view.

Read the posts and I think you'll find that most aren't totally happy with the situation, it isn't a case of blind faith idiocy, they realise that something has to change and that is where there is discord, the what needs to be done about it and when. Is it a good thing that the mantra of the negative posters are so consistent week on week, you seem to think it is? Whereas I don't, it's often simplistic and dull IMO. If there is a win, well it was only against so and so, it should have been by more, it should have been more entertaining.....

I'm not crying in my beer btw everyone is entitled to an opinion on the causes and remedies of our current situation, it's a shame that it is in such a state that we find ourselves with a fence to be divided by. It shouldn't be a case of anyone going into hiding should the team get a result that doesn't suit their agenda win or lose how daft would that be?

Too true, I want a new organ grinder and monkey. I'm sick of hearing the current same old tune.
TS is being carried off the back of what we achieved with a Paul Cullen squad.
I don't care if we won the double in 2017. He's been a flop.

If we end up in the middle 8's it'll be the first time in this clubs entire history that we've ever played outside the top flight. 140 years. And we'll be doing it with, on paper, one of the most talented squads in the league.

The way we're going we'll lose to saints, get banged at magic then we've got another double bank holiday fixure weekend the week after. We can't drop any more than two more games all season. If we do, we'll be stuck in the middle 8's.

Find some positivity in that.

Moving On, it's either been said by you or another poster that we'll lose our top flight tag if we don't make the top 8 well I'm not convinced. It might be a different part of the same season but it's not the same as relegation, play in the middle 8's and we could of course drop down a division at the END of that process.

Anyway, having read your post here are the positives "most talented squads in the league" must give us a chance of turning it around and perhaps more telling you start off with "If" and pretty much end with "If" with a run of predicted defeats in the middle.

So yes it's hard to "find some positivity in that" but that's the way you've written it, it's not happened....yet

Surely losing your "top flight status" only happens when you start the next season in the Championship?

I think if you end up playing teams from the Championship as part of your regular league season, having lost the right to play the best of your peers, you would be clinging to that outwardly but would know inside.

Top 8 is a separate completion to the middle 8. Though we may not officially dropped out of superleage, we will have dropped out of the top flight competition.

If we lose on Friday which we are very capable of doing, and Leeds lose at Catalan which isn't impossible at all. It's a 4 point gap to 8th and the middle 8's looking likely.

I suppose theoretically the mid 8 is akin to a comp for those teams that would had been gameless throughout the premiership playoffs and lucky enough to have not finished bottom like the yoyo teams Salford Leigh and Oldham were.

I suppose finishing in the middle 8s will provide a few jobs at the HJ (temporary at least) to cope with the rush for 2018 season tickets.

To me being in the middle 8's would be more like missing out on the old style playoffs... It wouldn't be the same as not playing in the top flight.

After all you can't play the eventual champions of the league home and away and have someone say you played in a lower league. ..

That said it's hugely embarrassing for the club.

For the only team to never have played outside the top flight. I like to throw that about occasionally to remind our bighead "greatest RL team" neighbours.

The '140 years of top flight rugby'/'never outside the top flight' comment is an interesting one, and needs a bit of correction and clarification.

Firstly, we should be clear that the club has not had '140 years of top flight rugby' - mainly because, in the context in which this comment is meant, that is impossible. When the club was formed in 1876 there were no competitive league (or cup) fixtures. The club played local (minor) clubs in self-arranged friendlies for the first few seasons, and gradually over the next decade or so the standing of these opponents rose, as the prominence of Warrington did too.

The Lancashire RFU was slow in starting competitive games, so the sub-union in West Lancashire took up the task. A cup comp was first (as was the case in most forms of football at the time), and it wasn't until 1889 that a league (the West Lancashire League) was started. Whilst very localised I would argue this was a 'top flight' competition, including as it did not only the best teams in the area, but clubs that would continue to be prominent through the evolving competitions that followed, such as Wigan, Saints & Widnes.

However, for the next 2 seasons, Warrington elected not to compete in this league - so they actually gave up their top flight status almost at the first opportunity!! They did re-join league football in 1892 when the county-wide Lancashire First Class Competition was started. The club then obviously joined the Northern Union in 1895, were in the group of teams that split to form the Northern Rugby Football League in 1901, and played in the first division through the periods when two or more divisions were in situ in the three eras this has been seen (1902-5, 1962-4, 1973 onwards).

An important point to note though is that the club did not play in the war-time league from 1940 for a period of 4 years, after Wilderspool was requisitioned for the war effort.

All this makes the claim slightly tenuous - as a result of the spell out during the war, there are a few teams (I can't remember off the top of my head exactly, but IIRC Wigan & Leeds) who have played more seasons in the top division than us. Both have of course played outside the top flight - Wigan once in the post-1973 era, and Leeds way back at the start of the last century.

As for the middle 8s standing, it's an interesting one viewed from a historical & statistical context. It's viewed as a seperate competition statistically, as tries count towards a player's record, but do not count as 'Super League' tries, unlike those scored in the Super 8s. It's most akin to an elongated relegation play-off, as used to be played pre first world war, when the bottom club of one division would play the top club of another forthe higher status.

Given all this, there's an argument both ways, as has been made above. Interesting, the split is quite familiar, with the typically 'glass half full' folk arguing we lose our record, and the optimists saying it doesn't matter!

FWIW, I don't judge it affects our slightly spurious claim either, as you can just continue to twist it to make it even more tenuous, but still hold. So if you changed the wording to be that 'we have never started a season outside the top flight', or that 'every season we have played competitive football we have competed in the top flight', both statements are factually correct.

That said, whilst it's an interesting debate, I think we're missing all missing the point: it's not going to happen anyway

Wow
I refer the honourable gentleman to the statement I referred to earlier.