What's the craic at your gaff then, Ellis and mago (in particular) seemed to give you real edge against us in the pre season game.

What's happening with the other props, who's getting picked out of Partington, havard Byrne and singleton?

We have a team of backrowers. That’s it. Even Cooper is a backrower, he does his best, but alone without a Hill, he’s found out wanting.
I’m not sugar coating ewt, I’ve banged on and on about it since we signed Sims, we haven’t bought a prop since the well passed it Asiteasy.

Every season I’m the hurdy gurdy man, and the tune is always the same.

PACKS WIN GAMES

To be fair RD you have added a new theme that I haven’t seen from you before, namely Cooper is a 2nd row, reliant on Hill and now found out. How this wasn’t picked up at Warrington in his 2 stints or Newcastle Knights when he was there shows how little the professionals know.

Not so much “hurdy gurdy” as “horsey dungy” on this occasion.

You've just poured unmentionables upon the image of Mr Rusty that was in my head.

I think Robbie Mulhern and James Harrison will probably end up being our best possible Prop pairing. But I always thought someone like Samy Kibula could have been the next tank for us in the forward pack, shame we let him go.

For the moment Mulhern is putting in stats at least similar - if not worse - than Philbin, he's part of the problem. Philbin seems to get more criticism because people (rightly) export more of him.

Samy Kibula had all the physical attributes but seemed to lack the impact, aggression and determination to make it as a SL prop, just as most Wigan fans told us at the time.

High hopes for Harrison though.

Like I said. Found out.

But props are no longer like barrels of lard who train in the pub ,they are more athletic & manouverable than they used to be. The game these days ,ever since 6 tackles was brought in, is in need of forwards who are not much different to backs.

Quote(ish) David Fafita
‘We knew they(Wire) was light, and the plan was to run up the middle right through them’

Make of that as you will.

A good Prop or two would certainly not go amiss but it’s not our only problem nor would it be an instant solution. The players have clearly yet to adapt to the Powell system, and maybe some of them never will. The lack of line speed is a concern but I think that in particular we are struggling in transitioning from attacking to defensive shape. Consequently we are turning ball over and then allowing the opposition to march up field and to find huge gaps. Add to that the panic and reverting to what we’ve done for several years under Price and there is clearly a lot more work yet to be done. Hopefully Powell can fix it, and soon.

Made up you mean. Playing 15 years in the wrong position at SL, NRL and International level. He would’ve made one hell of a 2nd row if he achieved all this in the wrong position.

I feel even worse now I know we actually need 4 new props!

You are correct RD he did say that and to be fair so was Fafita, we are light but what I didn't make of it was that he thought Mike Cooper is a second rower

Bring back the beast !!!

Is it difficult to coach an increase in line speed? Or is it enthusiasm and determination?

Well said. A coach won't make any difference if players have no desire. The likes of currie, widdop and King are playing games half ar$Ed, and that's the ONE thing you can't do if you want to win any game of rugby league.

Same goes for kick chases. They are a barometer of how committed the team is.

Players not giving 100% need to be dropped. It's corrosive and insulting. Powell has surprised me with how tolerant he is. Some players are taking the .

Fafita didn’t say he was a backrower, I did.

Ok Cooper has transitioned into a prop, and a very good one, but unlike Warmsley, doesn’t seem to have the gravitas. Warmsley size carries the weight balance that is lacking when partnered with a transitional prop like Matty Lees. Cooper and Hughes in comparison?

Cooper was always a backrow:/loose forward who struggled to get a regular start, heads off down under and get huge raps with his offloads when playing in a big pack. He’s now playing in a light pack. It’s all relative.

My comments are my own and what I see.

Packs win games

I suppose if the definition of a prop is “are you as big and effective (and serious?!) as Walmesley” then not many will qualify.

Sorry when did Cooper transition into a prop? He's always played prop since he came into the first team?

Also how come if he's been playing in a weak pack since he came back he's been up there with the best props and been a supposed man of steel contender?

I didn't say that you said Fafita thought Cooper was a backrower, I heard the same (correct IMO) comment as you. You asked us to "make of that what you will" and I think that the majority will have Cooper down as a Prop and it was aimed at the whole pack and bench.

Here's one for you if we had two Cooper's on the pitch Mike and Tommy and three on the bench Gary, Bradley and Mini but all of equal stature would you think,

a) We have an abundance of props
b) We have an abundance of second rowers
c) We'll never be short of a barrel at the Christmas Party

See the thing is, his point will come back around to the 80s and les boyd and kevin tamati, our sport is so far distanced from that version of the sport its not even relevant to make comparisons like that.

Here's your litmus test on this one, how many people were supporting of antony england? he ticks a few recruitment boxes as he was as big if not bigger than walmsley, and he came from the championship, which as you will see lately is a requirement for the usual suspects complaining about poor recruitment from the nrl, but they dont like it when we try to sign players from the championship.

a lot of these complaints and viewpoints are cyclical, people saying we shouldn't be tieing up money in the halves, we should spend marquee on a prop, couple years down the line when we still haven't won a gf, why are we wasting it on a prop?...

In his last season before he went to Australia most of his starts were at loose forward with most of his appearances coming as a bench prop.

The only reason he didn't start as prop in that season (2013) was due to our abundance of huge forwards.

This was a time when the man-mountain Waterhouse was playing SR/LF. We had Harrison and Westwood playing SR too, all of which would probably be playing prop in our current team.

So I'd say back then, I'd say he was a prop who was played in other roles due to his inexperience and squad quality. I can't remember him ever being seen as a SR.