Absolutely serious.

There's plenty of myths like, no doubt you'll throw one of them at me ...

He's plop under the high ball.

He can't tackle.

He's always out of position.

I'd like to know what areas of his game that Smith sees as the problem for him, ie, what is holding him back from featuring in SL right now, and moreso, how does he put these things right, what can a coach do to help Kev, what can Kev do to help himself etc ???

Maybe there's things that we don't see as problems that Smith sees as problems, I don't know. Perhaps he isn't strong enough in exit sets, can't win the floor to get a quick play of the ball that sort of stuff, I'd be interested to know from a Coach's propsective.

At the end of the day Penny is simply not good enough to be a regular SL player and wont be getting a game anytime soon unless half the team get struck down by some mysterious illness....We should get rid or at least send him back out on loan where we can save some money on his wage.

I think he's fine under a high ball so i'd consider that a myth. But seriously it's like dealing with King canute with a few posters that refuse to see his glaring defencive weakness. I'd love him to make it, on offense he can be fantastic but i won't turn a blind eye to how poor he is when he is required to defend.

These Penny threads make me laugh.

There are the people on here whobalme him for every try scored on the wing he played on. Who can forget a couple of seasons ago when he was at fault for four tries against Hull KR eve when one of them was scored on the other wing.

My reading of the situation, only my opinion of course. TS sees some future for him, KP asked in the close season if they wanted to let hm go, the answer was no ( I do know this as fact). I know Widnes loved him, he could go back there tomorrow. He hasn't gone on loan as a dual registration player so there must be some reason?

If he left us he would have no problem finding a SL club.

I still think Penny has something in attack that you cannot coach. Dig out videos of his tries, there were very few run ins.

Yes he has his defensive frailties that is clear, the last few times I saw hm play they were less.

Remember this is probably the last season from Hicks, King may go home at the end of his contract. A few injuries and we need him.

how can you of come up with that, in 28 super league games he has scored 25 - 26 tries and your saying he's not good enough

, so tell me what is good enough

Did Tony Smith not select Rhys Williams today over Penny?

Whether people feel he is Warrington standard or not (we should be top 4 SL) I do feel that he could do a very good job in SL, and I agree with some that at a club like Crusaders, Quins, Salford etc he could be a real star.

When people talk about his defence, they do ignore the big improvements he has made in that area during his last few games for the team. In his first year, that wasn't an issue either, it really did coincide with King joining the team, and we know that he is poor at 4 in defence. I wonder whether he would be better there with Atkins at 4.

I certainly wouldn;t even consider offloading him yet, and hopefully he will get his chance again, with improvements from working under Smith.

How do you know that; have you spoken to Tony Smith?

What I have noticed is that from what I've seen, if he does get back into our side, it'll be as a right winger noawadays, outside Bridge. He did that against Quins last year, on't last day of the season. That's where he plays now for the u20's.

There must be a reason for this, something that Smith has noticed. Perhaps his carry, or that he won't be as prone to drift a yard or whatever, I dunno, I'd like to ask Che. Knowing Smith's attention to detail, there'll be a reason, for sure.

who had about 15 seconds involvement during the whole game and still managed to look like a frightened kitten.

the lad has some beef on him but if thats the type of winger that Tony Smith wants at this club then thats a touch dissapointing.

the positioning of the Crusaders Full back at times cried out for a Kevin Penny foot race he could have scored more than the 10 points, points difference that would have taken us top.

Seeing the almost herculean effort king puts in defence, stick him on that wing. I'm sure he'll do well with all of Kings tackle bursts too

To be honest you are very lucky fans, having a player like Kevin penny in your squad, that’s the sign of a top class outfit,
We would take him today, if you offered his services to us. The rumour mill is already saying he’s on his way back to the stobart stadium.
Although i hate to say it you are looking like real contenders for old Trafford. I would swap playing Batley any day for regular games against your men; you don’t know how lucky you are.

oh well maybe 2012

Indeed. I'll trust TS on his team selection. Well I will if if we keep winning.

We love him, the lads always welcome at Widnes and from what i heard today we may see him sooner rather than later.

I heard of a widnes fan I know, that he has been told cooper is going there on loan... I did a little lol at him.

king and penny seemed to work well together should see kings try against hull few seasons ago immense on youtube if you want to see

My nan would score tries paying next to king, the form he is in.

Not if he keeps passing like he did twice right in front of me yesterday!

he made a few miss passes but on another day it would be tries each time whats good is that he got himself in them positions to do that failed with some attempts and still scores two and sets up others aswell

I know, I was only joking. The first one he was gutted, but the second one he seemed embarrassed.

Being dead might go against her as well.

Even Gaskell might have scored a few....

We had a scrum and the Crusaders fb was no where to be to seen i said the lad next to if Lee was playing and saw that then he would have kicked it over the top for Penny (if he was playing) to chase.Like the try he scored against Salford at the Hj a couple of years ago.

yeh got a hat trick that game always say when there no fullback but no one on pitch with that pace unless riley is quick enough???

Quick enough ? The lad has got pace for sure, maybe not as quick as KP, but he doesn't lack in that department, outpaces many on his way past people as I've seen.