That wasn't a set play, that was something the opposition had noticed (that our forwards were looking tired and losing concentration) thus bringing in Briscoe close to the ruck to exploit their lack of lateral movement.

Or are you suggesting that was being planned from kick-off?

A move is different than a set play. The vision to decide what to do when is not really something that can be coached into players.

I've never been to a Warrington coaching session, so my comments are not borne from experience but what on earth is it that Tony Smith and his coaching staff do then, if no-one is "coached"???? They are not playing Fantasy Rugby League Manager!

I cannot believe that instinct is relied upon to get us through games. It has to play a part and that is what is being missed from the likes of Lee Briers (go yourself, kick to the wing, grubber kick, chip and chase, pass) but there are 13 other players on the field at any one time with exactly the same choices to make.

I have been HUGELY disappointed at our lack of finishing so far this season (only two games, I know) but there doesn't appear to be ANY clue as to what to do when we get 20 metres or so from an opposition's try line. Benny Westwood's try against Leeds is the exception to this rule.

Our opponents are easily going to realise that our only attacking move is kicking it high and wide for Joel to pounce upon. This worked fortunately against Leeds as Ryan Hall wasn't on his game, but I have nightmares that Joel misses and the opposition winger picks up the ball and has an empty field ahead of him to the try line!

I am looking for Michael Monaghan, Richie Myler, Gareth O'Brien, Micky Higham and/or Stefan Ratchford (Matty Russell when fit) to be those players who are "controlling" our attack as we reach these positions, but no one so far has come up with the goods.

im suggesting its a move that has been rehed on the training ground. Its then something that can be called on at anytime in a game.. so yes, it was a set play.

Leeds didn't just think 'oh lets try this thing we have never done before ever'.

I disagree. I think Hardaker was running laterally looking for a) space himself or b) a runner. Briscoe saw this and provided a committed line in between two defenders which, when he got the ball from Hardaker, split us in two.

This, I think, isn't a set move more of an instinctive play between two very good players.

I disagree, he ran onto a short ball aimed at a weak spot in our defense.

I think that kind of move can be rehed and modified accordingly during a game to aim at a particular spot.

That is not 'a play' or 'a move' it is simply a simple carry towards the middle, only for Waterhouse to close his shoulders in. As soon as Briscoe sees that, it's just simple push and pass. Touch rugby will bring that skill set to anyone, even us.

What Mark is saying is that scripted plans are thing of the past in favour of playing what is in front, for example, a bad read or a number manipulation set.

IMO, we tried to be too structured. Too many times we went to the link around the back play when the defence is doing something else

Accepted, but pinpointing tiring defence cannot surely be coached as no-one on a training field can re-create the scenario as there are so many variables. Personally I think it was Briscoe seeing an opportunity, running the correct line and Hardaker seeing the pass and angle of run and released it bang on time.

I remember Riley, cant for the life of me remember who against, scooting from dummy half and doing exactly the same move a few years back releasing one of our outside backs before following up and getting it back to score. Surely this wasn't a move that Chris Riley rehes and is just 'instinctive running' by two players?

its all about opinions... When i used to play, we used to regularly practice putting the fastest player from our team through with a short ball in training.

The move would often be aimed at the side of the pitch that had done the most defending... It was often a tactic to pepper one side of the defense, then try these rehed moved on this side.

We also used to practice the short ball on the inside off a run around in the same places

These were done so we could use them on both sides of the pitch using 3 different passers of the short ball, same receiver every time.

Pinpointing a tiring defense can be coached and is... well it was anyway... and coached to us by professional players at the time.

Maybe these methods aren't used anymore.... looked like it to me though.

Really?

Wigan seemed to do ok last season with rehed set moves.

Two posters in 'amicably agree to disagree' shocker!!





Aren't we meant to fall out and call each other names, like so often happens on these forums?

Guessing you missed the entire 2011 season then.....

The most perfect display I think I've ever seen is the drubbing we gave Huddersfield in the challenge cup, we beat them 60-4 at their place, it was the ultimate attacking perfection. Everything we did came off including some pretty outrageous stuff.

Could say the same about the Qualifying Playoff when we beat them 47-0 at the HJ. Defensive perfection included.

Righto... I am still saying there is a difference between a set move and a set play and the difference is the vision and the intelligence of the players to use it whilst still playing what it is front of them. I have seen some teams work to a rigid set of six plays.

Teams do still use set plays (for example a set of six as an exit set from their own line) but the better teams are more organic and creative in their approach play especially in the opposition half. The best examples of this in recent years is the free-wheeling rugby played by our own team during 2011 when we had Monas, Briers and Hodgson all at the top of their game.

For reference, from what I can see at the U16s they only regularly use four or five set moves (in some cases they are no more complex than just pass forms) but they are still being encouraged to watch what the A, B, C defenders are doing in relation to their hip positions and then make decisions based on that. Certainly in my experience you can base your whole attack on a team that willingly pushes on all the space around the ball carrier and inherently that creates doubt in defenders minds.

....and regardless Tony Smith does say openly that he doesn't coach attack so make of that what you will.

i think this thread has now come full circle

The time period being between the Premiership win and 2009.

2011 falls out of that period.

perhaps I should have started it "I had. .."

Personally I remember Leeds 6 - 42 wire from that season as the standout wire performance. Sinfield played a good kicking game and we still kept coming back at them, field position management, attack and defence at it's very best.

M Monas taking on the line and a beautiful flick pass out the back to Solomona, lovely. From memory Leeds' only try was a knock on as well.

I think people are getting confused by the difference between a move and set plays. The move is a number of set plays taht are put together in a sequence. the reason as stated before is because so many things have to be correct for it to work.Set plays are coached i.e the short ball, the out the back, but these can be used anywhere the players feel it is right. TS will also have a say in the tactics of the game, where the set plays are best used and when, also he will coach improvements into players tell them where he thinks they are going wrong. Set plays and moves are a tiny part of the whole picture.

Yup...remember being annoyed at the time over the fact we should've nilled them on their own patch. How times have changed

We overdid it that day though. At 6-30, as the Leeds played grouped (again) near their own posts in front of the West Terrace: "it's just like Wem-ber-lee...". Their body language said it all. Then we went and buggered it up by scoring two more. The best Wire team I've seen that year, and IMHO the best team not to win SL.

A sobering thought. The Wire are by no means finished but think it'll be a while before we see a team in p&b as good as that again.

I tend to agree.

Agreed easily the best side to miss out, that bloody drop goal!