Great post. Pretty much what I had in mind when I started the thread.

Ratchford has pretty much always produced, whether in a good side or bad one. Probably only Westwood can say the same thing. Briers was inconsistent and only got consistency in his game once Tony Smith arrived and he whipped an already decent squad of players into shape.

A lot of the others who Sally mentioned, while good players, either don't match Ratchford's longevity or were just part of a very good unit of players that we had between 2010 and 2012.

That's an interesting call. Pendlebury was a fine player, but considering you will have seen Mike Gregory and Ellery Hanley around the same period, then it's brave to single him out as the best.

Add Paul Sculthorpe to that list.

I never got the Bridge love in. I had him down as a decent centre but no more than that. Whenever I see a team sheet without Ratchford’s name on it my heart sinks.
The comparison with Briers is interesting. Some put Briers later consistency down to TS. There is some validity in that, but there is also the fact that he didn’t have to carry all the responsibility on his shoulders. So often for the last couple of seasons Ratchet was the only player in the back line that you could depend on to produce something consistently.

Great great players. Loved Mike, but imo was a backrower wearing 13.
Hanley was an athlete and his fitness was his prowess as oppose to the old school vision and handling ability of a slick 13.

The only traditional type 13 I’d say in SL were both Pies. Farrell and Lockers.
Pendlebury was an old school loose. I really can’t remember Wire ever having one.
I know Ratchford has the ability to be that player, he just currently lacks a few pounds for the knocks and attention he will receive by stepping up closer to the pack.

The game has evolved over the SL era, and I’m not so sure there is the need for a loose anymore, there’s enough teams play without one, and utilise the position to play a 3rd prop. Something Wire have done, since the overrated Mike Forshaw left, however the most successful teams over the last 3 decades, all have some sort of dedicated loose forward.
Farrell/ Lockers...plus Sculthorpe and Sinfield to a slightly lesser old school degree.

Nor can I, not one in the mould of Joyner, Norton, Ashurst, Pinner or Adams.

I suppose if you already 2 good half backs, then the need for a ball playing loose like Pendlebury isn't there and so you can go with an additional bit of beef at 13, which is what most modern sides do.

From Wire's point of view, if Austin and Widdop are both fit, then the need for Ratchford at 13 isn't there. However, if, like on Friday, Patton is in the side, then we are basically a playmaker down and moving Ratchford to 13 makes more sense.

You are probably right that Mike Gregory was more of a back rower, but it would be downplaying his ball handling skills to suggest he was simply a bit of extra weight in the pack - he could certainly pass a ball in the tackle and, until the latter days of his career, he was very mobile.

Its just come to me, but I suppose the closest that Wire have had to the type of player you are describing is Mark Thomas and ironically we didn't even play him at 13!?

Like i said, I cannot think of one.

Ratchford's longevity will mean he gets respect for sure.

I would put him in a tier with guys like Paul Wood, Cooper, Mike Gregory, Bridge: above Cullen, Forster, Clarke and Riley and below Westwood, Hill and Briers.

If Daryl Clark plays a few more years with us and ends up passing the decade in a Wire mark, I expect him to be up with Westwood, Hill and Briers.

Paul Wood and Chris Bridge at the same level as M Gregory? Has someone hacked your account?

Sally is obviously suffering with selective memory, though, to be fair, I think the peak Mike Gregory was probably before his time - Putting him at the same level as Bridge and Wood is hilarious though.

As for having Briers ahead of Ratchford. Well, one's a regular international, who has been our most consistent player of the last 7 or 8 years and the other spent 10 years basically typifying the Wire side of that time - very, very talented, but with a regular habit of frustrating every fan in the stadium with below par performances, mainly due to a huge attitude problem.

The days of your "old fashioned 13" got drilled out of the game almost 25 years ago (at International level, anyway), when you'd see Farrell go to No 6, in order to accommodate an extra tackler on the pitch.

We've seen it non stop in the last 15 years (in SL). At our place, Westwood and Harrison being examples. Two big blokes who "beefed up" your pack, when they were given the LF slot, but playing as an auxiliary prop.

Loose Forward Lives Matter

Kelly Shelford managed beef with skill (most of the time).

I'd forgot about Shelford.

Wasn't he actually a stand off for NZ and before he joined us though and ended up at 13 just to simply accommodate him, Mackey and Ellis into the same side?

Also, I'd throw Tawere Nikau into the classic loose forward category. Had all the attributes. Bit of steel and had the ball handling skills too.

Am I 'talking' nonsense, is my memory playing tricks, but are there any 'votes' for Simon Grix as a BR operating successfully at LF?

I vote this.

i'd say he was an out n out 13, but was so good you could shoe horn him anywhere and get a 7/10 performance

Yes he was class and a good example of the LF role. Pity that injuries caught up with him.

Edited for accuracy.

For me, Shelford was a stand off, not a loose forward.

Most underrated player that I've seen in the P&B. He even played at stand off against Leeds and stopped McGuire from playing.

Grix was a good, solid and dependable player, fantastic for the salary cap era, where getting full value from guys at the bottom end of the salary ladder is crucial. We had quite a few similar in that era, such as Chris Riley and Ben Harrison.

His versatility was a great asset and LF was probably his most natural position. It'd be pushing it to say he was up there with a Mike Gregory or a Nikau though.

i'd say he was up there for nikau when he played for us.

Probably. Though that Nikau was at least 5 years past his peak.

tbf he was outstanding for melbourne in 1999 especially in the GF, which was why he was such a disapointment in 2000 when he just went around cheap shotting people.