True that. I’ve said for a few years, we always seem to score out wide. Having prolific wingers is actually a bit of a double edged sword. Regular tries, but difficult goals. Either way most of our tries are out wide aren’t they?

Usual amount in a brown sealed envelope in used notes pal.

Charnley does try running the ball in when on his feet. That's already trained into him being a kicker himself. Didn't Lineham cost us a game by not running the ball in a couple of seasons back too, learning from it the hard way with grounding it twice with no pressure?

Anyway I think we're trying but in a trial game W71 I'd want my wingers not to run in but go wide to make the kickers have it tough on purpose.
But not in Round 1+

I didn't go to the game so was interested to learn if kicking duties were shared.

From what I remember, Patton missed 2, Ratchford missed 2 & Atkins missed 1

Any video highlights planned? Anybody in the know?

Club shop have DVD's of the full game with interviews with Pricey and Ryan if that's any use to you.

THE HOOF

Cheers.

Hopefully we can play like 2011 and conversions wont matter one jot. Blow teams away in the first half and coast through the second.

Aye but goals mattered in in 2011 though, like when we couldn't blow away teams, I well remember this game on 30 September 2011

Warrington Wolves 24-26 Leeds Rhinos
Warrington (12) 24
Tries: Riley 2, J Monaghan, King
Goals: Bridge 4
Leeds (6) 26
Tries: Hall 2, Ablett, Burrow
Goals: Sinfield 5

OK as you like stats to prove everything...what was the penalty count?

I don't know what your point is here on the face of it four tries a piece Sinfield lands one more kick than Bridge in a game that wasn't run of the mill in anyone's book

The point I was trying to convey in regards to continuing the debate was that goals matter, this was to challenge the assertion that conversions wont matter one jot when we can blow teams away.

My point was to highlight a time in recent memory when goals mattered greatly in determining our fortunes and probably cost us our first GF win.

That's all, I wasn't bagging anyone, just debating a point.

W71 I wasn't "bagging" you either whilst I agree that goals do matter and usually in games that matter (as games tend to be tight against the big teams) I don't think that your example was a good one.

I remember the game, I remember the penalty that won it for Leeds following a couple of disallowed tries, we were unlucky I was gutted like everyone else, I think Hodgson went off and it was a 50/50 game but I don't think that kicking made the difference. I may be wrong here did we miss plenty of them that kept Leeds in it allowing them to snatch the game, or are you simply extolling the virtues of a kicker like Sinfield?

If it's the latter you'll get no argument from me, but, that's not the same as outscoring or equaling a team with try's and losing because of poor kicking did that happen fairly recently v Cas? I think (very ale trail memory here) the semi at Hudds v Hull FC was agame where kicking let us down we were well ahead in stats but close on the scoreboard and as soon as Bridge went for the killer play they were right back in it got on a roll and the rest is history hic!!

but you couldn't have picked a worse example for your theory.
On the face of it...it favours we lost the game through indiscipline.
There isn't enough information there to assume we list the game on kicks...and it looks like Bridge hit 100% of his attempts.

Yes both teams had tries disallowed and it was very tight. No, I'm not talking about goals missed in this instance (although we could cite games we have lost narrowly), I am saying that I would not fancy our chances of landing a kick from 35m to make a GF if it was Ratch or Patton. So the example was to show how an excellent goal kicker can change outcomes in the biggest games.

I am of the opinion that we need a top quality, reliable goal kicker than can kick at distance. I think our goal kicking stats are swayed by the fact we rarely elect to take a penalty kick unless it's a simple opportunity - I guess this is the hidden cost.

For completeness a good example of goal kicking costing us a game was as recent as the CCQF 17/6/2017 vs Wigan which ended 26-27 with Ratchford blowing a challenging, but kickable penalty attempt in the final minutes which, if he had kicked it, would have given us a CCSF against Salford.

I agree and I'd have more fingernails left with Hodgson or Sinfield lining up a kick than say Ratchford. Perhaps a bizarre thought but do you think in Leeds' case having a Sinfield in the team cost them the CC against us when they all to eagerly took the two in the Final?

We would of got away with it if it wasn't for that pesky off side penalty!

It's been said before but Wigan won the GF after missing EVERY attempt at goal. We also won a challenge cup final with Ben Westwood kicking. It helps to have an unbelievably good kicker, but it isn't as important as some people are making out. I can't remember the last major final that was won due to the reliability of the goalkicker.

Quote ="Moe syslak"It's been said before but Wigan won the GF after missing EVERY attempt at goal. We also won a challenge cup final with Ben Westwood kicking. It helps to have an unbelievably good kicker, but it isn't as important as some people are making out. I can't remember the last major final that was won due to the reliability of the goalkicker.'" I can https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/37169016

Quote ="Moe syslak"It's been said before but Wigan won the GF after missing EVERY attempt at goal. We also won a challenge cup final with Ben Westwood kicking. It helps to have an unbelievably good kicker, but it isn't as important as some people are making out. I can't remember the last major final that was won due to the reliability of the goalkicker.'" I can https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/37169016

Quote ="Builth Wells Wire"I can https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/37169016'" I think was won with a great tackle than a great kick.

Quote ="Builth Wells Wire"I can https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/37169016'" I think was won with a great tackle than a great kick.

Gidley missed an easy kick in the 1st half.

A prolific goal kicker may not be absolutely necessary but I am sure it would be a big help.
Botica, Deacon, Sinfield were all part of teams that were successful for a few years and I am sure that all 3 helped to win tight games with successful kicks.
I am not too sure we will blow every team off the park and there will be games where an extra conversion / penalty or two would help.
It may not be a game winning kick but sometimes stretching a lead by 2 scores to 3 can put the nail into the coffin of a team.
There has been plenty of times in the past few years when the starting front row has left the field 2 scores up only to be pegged back when they have a rest. A 3 score lead is a bigger mental hurdle to come back from. Hopefully we have better options to rotate now so we have less of a mid game drop off when cooper / Hill are off the pitch.
It would be nice to have on player kicking all the time at 80%+

So that's two clear Challenge Cup examples 2016, 2017.

As an aside I've just looked back at that 2016 side vs Hull.

Look at the backline ...

Ratchford; Russell, T King, Atkins, Evans

and think how that has changed for the better



Ratchford, Lineham, Goodwin, King, Charnley,

There are at least 3 great kickers in the current back line.

Even prolific kickers can miss the easiest of kicks with the pressure of Wembley.