Hang on LG he didn’t just improve our goal kicking!!!

Well you saved me the explanation.
100% that.
Sinfield would have walked into 13 or 6 at any team, other than Wigan, even if he couldn't kick.
You don't carry kickers.
Last season we got into both finals without a prolific kicker and never lost either game on kicking.

To move this "old" debate on. We need to have a shopping list of exceptional kickers who we might track down when we have salary cap space. I think the plan last year was to have Roberts as first choice then Goodwin as No.2. This went wrong when Roberts had an early injury (which stopped him kicking) and Goodwin got the "yips". Most kickers get the "yips" at times ... but some only last a game or two. So first question ... who would be on a hypothetical shopping list?

None.... you can't have enough props...however if he kicks goals that's a Brucie bonus!!

Ratchford Goodwin Patton Charnley are all around 70-80% successful kickers.
If we want to pinch more percentage we only need to remind scorers where possible to come in nearer the sticks...it really is that simple and a whole lot cheaper than buying a 80-90%% kicker...who probably only has that stat because of considerate try scorers anyway.

I've compiled these from last seasons stats. Below I've included a couple of ex-players taken from an average of two consecutive seasons for rough comparison.

Patton 89% from 19 kicks
Gale 87% from 55
Connor 87% from 65
Ryan Shaw 86% from 65
Roberts 83% from 35
Hampshire 82% from 74
Sneyd 76% from 67
Tomkins 75% from 125
...
Ratch 75% from 36
...
Livett 72% from 18
...
Goodwin 59% from 49

====

Sinfield 82% from 119 avg kicks
Pat Richards 78% from 99
Brett Hodgson 76% from 87


*edit - Connor is 87% not 89% as I originally put.

I suspect the 4 shirt retained by Atkins doesn't necessarily reflect Prices ideal starting 13 but is more of a respect thing in Ryan's testimonial year. Surprised Currie has kept the 11 shirt also as I don't think we will be seeing him until the back end of next season. Personally I wouldn't like to see him until the season after. too many times ben has rushed back only for the same thing to happen again.

I cant believe i'm going to say this but maybe Patton is the answer to both our problems... his tactical kicking is the best in the current squad of players and he's the most natural goal kicker in the team... for these reasons he'd be starting at 7 for me ahead of Brown....

His main issue seems to be lack of consistency... fantastic one week, invisible the next.. reminds me of a certain someone in his earlier pre-Tony Smith days (but not as good obviously ha ha)

Excellent. Thank you.

It's when you can actually see the margin is so small, it puts to say we should be carry a goal kicker into perspective.
No we don't....we only need to increase the frequency of efforts for the kicker to put pressure on him to make it difficult to keep it up....then he'll get even better.

Agree 100% with this. I would still like to see Blake and Brown start as our two halves, but Brown to be rotated for a handful of games and see this season transition Patton in, giving him a real go at staking his place in the team, ready for a first choice shirt next season. I suspect Price never really saw him as an interchange 9, but it was the easiest way to give him minutes last season.



And 100% on this - it's not as if we've got Westwood as our number 1 kicker - a number of our kickers are good enough - the issue is we have [ikickers[/i, not a kicker. We just need to nail the kicking duties to one guy, with a couple of able deputies.

There was only one area of lacking in kicking last season, and that was drop kicks.

Not that I watch Hull FC that much but I would have had Sneyd right up there as far as kicking success % are concerned?

Sneyd
2018 76% from 67
2017 88% from 116
2016 83% from 132
2015 68% from 101
2014 76% from 129

Probably one of the most consistent over a sustained period of time - but has his peaks and troughs season to season.

I reckon the stats were great.
Brett Hodgson seemed to be a brilliant kicker to me. He's 1% above Stef Ratchford.
The mind plays tricks.
Though v Cas (A) in the wet ... Stef Ratchford's kicking was great.

We could argue that Patton has had a lot of time to stake his place in the side. It will be his 5th season next year.

Also I do not recall him having a "fantastic" game as another poster says. We will see.

Ha ha. When I was reading Jimathay's post, I imagined you saying just that. Not that I disagree, mind.

Patton probably has the best opportunity that any young half back has had in the HJ era.
He knows that Brown can't go on for much longer and no disrespect to Brown but it is not like he has to take the shirt off Briers. He has been here a while where other young players have had half as many games to prove themselves.
He will also get opportunities as brown is prone to concussion injuries (not wanting to wish that on any player)
We have just signed a back up hooker so less likely to be called on to play DH.
I am sure if that opportunity was presented to any of us in our early 20's we would make the necessary sacrifices to make sure we didn't waste it, whatever that takes.
Looking at his performances for us to date if he desnt up his game and make it here I am not convinced he could carve out a career at another SL club.
Only time will tell.

I'd love to see patton kick on, he has a great chance to claim a shirt this coming season, for me he needs to claim the 7 shirt before the end of the season or we will probably be shopping for another 7.

Realistically with salary cap restrictions he has to cement his place in the side or the next young half with potential to come from the academy will take his place in the squad and save us a little on wages. We have seen it with patton taking GOBs place before. This needs to be a big year for Dec patton, I hope he realises he needs to up his game.

Hulse.
Durbin.
O'Brien
Patton?

I imagine (and I hope) the shopping around for a 7 has already begun - they aren't easy to find.

For sure

Could you imagine Widdop and Austin in the same team!
Wow.
Would be like Murphy and Blake.

But the mind DOESN'T play tricks, Smiffy27
Hodgson didn't SEEM to be a brilliant kicker. He WAS a brilliant kicker.
It's STATS that play's tricks.
Don't forget, a lot of our tries in Hodgson's kicking days were scored by MonaghanJ, hence touchline kicks, and they're a damned sight more difficult than a kick scored from a try near the posts. We played flamboyant rugby back then.
When Ratchford took over kicking duties, our "style" of play became a lot more direct/fewer risks, so tries were scored more centrally.

Ratchford isn't a poor kicker, by any means, but to bracket him and Hodgson (as those stats do) as almost equals, defies logic.

Statistics. There to keep someone in a job, and for some uberfan to play Top Trumps with.

There's a bit of Emperor's New Clothes with Patton from his fans. They like to create the impression of him being an outstanding talent ready to bloom whereas probably the rest of us see a player who is at best just OK. In many games he seems anonymous.

Most likely what will happen is he will be at the club a year or two longer and then move on, and his next move will be a step down. He won't be going to the NRL or Saints, it will be Salford or Toronto. We will move on to someone else.

His fans will then create a legend about a player who could have been one of the greats but he was 'ruined by TS/Price', 'didn't get a fair chance', 'nobody could have succeeded playing behind a beaten pack'...

I believe Hodgson was probably the best goal kicker we've ever had, certainly in my memory, and stats don't tell the full story.

But over a longer period of time, stats do paint an accurate picture.

When you look at Hodgson's kicking average over 13 years by club -

Wire Average 78%
Huds Average 78%
Wests Average 77%
Eels Average 79%

13 year career average: 78%

Regardless of age, club, style of play, this is Brett Hodgson's goal kicking return.

I wouldn't use these numbers to prove how much better he is / isn't to Ratch or Roberts or Patton, but I would say that it does show how fantastic Brett was. He was an amazingly metronomic and reliable goal kicker, the likes of which we've not had since. Consistently (and consistency is key) getting the 2 and turning the screw on teams is a real killer.

I would hope these stats at least add to the debate and provide a different perspective or talking point for the other uberfans to debate around

Over the close season, Patton needs to find a few aces from somewhere.

I remember Martin Crompton, at the time a good, potentially very good scrum half, asking the then-coach Brian Johnson what he needed to do in the off season to improve. Johnson told him, put on some pace.

Come the start of the season and the Locker Cup and we had a new player - Crompton was suddenly very quick off the mark and finding gaps that he simply couldn't before.

Patton needs to do the same. Find a yard of pace, find a killer short range kicking game, find a killer pass .... [ianything[/i to lift him out of the masses of the average.

BMM, Sita whatisname and Patton all need to have the off season of their lives.