We wouldn't make a fist of it v leeds at Wembley either. I think KR are more unexposed than us and could create problems to leeds as they have us and pies.

I was very confident pre match (I'm a fan, I'm allowed to feel that way), and after we scored so quickly and easily I felt like it was going to be a comfortable day and that I'd be on my phone at half time booking final tickets. I suspect too many players may well have felt the same way.

I don't know about that. You raise your game -without sounding patronising, I mean compared to when u play teams inferior to you - when you play us, particularly your pack who always seems very up for it.

Les Norton and some others can't see the wood for the trees. B Mac knew what he was doing. He rested Sinfield and Burrow at that period and they lost 6 from 8 games yet rained top and finished top.
We are average, but because of a few players, the same players that have let us down for 2 seasons.

Everyone can see it but it seems TS cannot.

Atkins played well for 54secs can't believe how different you were when sims and hill went off we've had trouble all season making yards up the Middle yet today it was easy which surprised me

There are always positives to be taken from a defeat, today's defeat has saved the dire from being totally embarrassed at Wembley.

Next year will be your year. Not

We have know all season we aren't good enough... we all pretty much knew we weren't going to win a trophy... so nothing has changed really.

Lets see how next season goes.... If after the first 8 games we are still looking hopeless then its a case of making changes at the top.

One thing is for sure, Smith needs to get some decent forwards in before next season... 2 new props is absolute minimum i think.

Can anyone come up with any valid reason that Wheeler was played today? That decision alone baffles me.

Good point, glad we're not gonna get shown up by sintellins in the final, good luck against hull kr.

Yes today was dreadful like most of the season has been. Can anyone honestly remember England ever having a half decent game for us?? He is stealing a living and was anonymous today.

Without thinking any further than this answer: we needed 17 bodies. That's the best I've got.

Whilst he's a decent player when fit, he came across today as the talented but mardy kid at school who says they've taken a knock if things are getting tough.*

*(not meant as a personal attack on a guy who's obviously had a lot of bad luck)

As someone who has followed the club for 53 years and went home and away to Barrow, Batley, Mansfield, Nottingham etc, I never thought back then that this day would return in my lifetime, so I am just so happy to get to a cup final and am going to enjoy the day, win or lose. My brain as an RL fan say's that Leeds will win, but we tend to play with heart in big games, so anything is possible.

Don't fell sorry for us, we will sing and support our team no matter what the result on the day.

Am I the only one who thinks there's still potential in England? Big unit, got a bit of a nasty streak. Punches below his weight I think and seems to miss a fair few games but I still think he can get it together.

Agreed, and that's not with hindsight, the group I was with were all surprised by that when we first heard it

How do we go from the performance at Castleford to the lack of performance yesterday? It's happened too many times this season when our optimism has been replaced by despair ,we can blame Asotasi,England and Gaz but, they all played against Castleford,was losing Bennie and russell the problem ? We've been missing Russell most season but , I think Westwood is always a huge miss ,his aggression has been fundamental to our best performances this season

He played well in World Series , but had a bad injury from the game,, rumours are he still needs an operation for torn ligaments in his elbow region,, which would be 8 weeks out, TS asked him to play with injections and strapping till end of season to have op straight away,, so I am wiling to give him one more season fully fit,, before pulling the pin,,,

I tend to agree with the Russell statement, when he is at full back we seem a lot more organised defensively and the results with him starting have mostly been wins,, I think ratchford has been poor by his high standards over the last 6 weeks,,

To be fair on ratchford he doesn't know if he's coming or going playing full back , centre , stand off, loose forward, he can't get a settled position which is Purely down to a coaching decision where he plays each week on who gets injured it must be frustrating for him .

We should have put Penny at #1 . Not have played Wheeler & played Ratchford at centre.

Totally agree with that too, god help us if he had been injured and out for last 10 weeks, but he looks fatigued and slightly off pace at moment,,
And with supper 8 fixture list the games will be thick fast and brutal,,

We obviously need more cover at full back , full backs are going to get injured over a season, next year we should be ok ,both Gidley and Sandow can play full back ,not preferred position for Sandow but, he can play there if needed ,as for Penny I can't see him being at wire next year TS doesn't trust him ,otherwise he should have played yesterday ,shame , other clubs must think we are idiots not playing him

Penny should have started at full back.. Ratch should have stayed at centre he'd have given the opposition more to worry about up in the line.. And Penny would have returned kicks quicker, the decision to play Wheeler was baffling to say the least.

Selecting wheeler yesterday was a howler from smith. Not sure what penny has done to upset him but it's getting very annoying.

Wheeler playing, Asotasi still doing his 15 minutes a week, an unsettled dressing room, Penny being ignored...........the one common factor here is Smith. He is not a coach, he says as much himself with his "unstructured attack" and "letting the players play it as they see it" comments.

I know that I will be shot down in flames, but I think it's time for him to go - if he can't even get the team fired up for a CCSF then we're done for. I said to my wife when he was on BBC before the match yesterday that if I was a fan of any other team then I would really not like Smith, he just comes across as very arrogant and smug, and therein lies the problem. I think that Moran should have a word and voice his concerns, after all, he's a fan like us and must be as frustrated as we are with some of the selections (and non-selections) that Smith makes.

For me I'm afraid it's time for Smith to go