Yeah, I think I am

What's that thing written on our shirt sleeves about Wolves and biting

Really f00ks me off, when you get the usual "let's give the man a good kicking, whilst he's down" attitude. Mind you, Warrington fans have been doing that for decades. Never happy unless they've got someone in their sights, to have a go at.

Sad, really.

Penny wasn't "hung out to dry", he was dropped because his form wasn't good, and then Hicks and Riley were both fit and in form, so there was no route back into the side.

After Cullen had brought him in for his first start midway through 2007 season, he was a more or less ever present from that point until Cullen's last game midway through 2008. Lowes then took over and left him out for his first three games but brought him back for the rest of the 2008 season.

The factor that changed everything for Penny was Riley's breakthrough season in the second half of 2008. Although Riley had made his debut a year before Penny he was a fringe player for his first few seasons just making a handful of appearances a year until Lowes took over, Riley was ever present for the rest of the 2008 season and he scored 12 in the last 13 games of the year.

When 2009 came round, Lowes started the year with Riley at fullback and Penny and Hicks as the wingers, we started the year badly, Penny got dropped, Tony Smith took over and signed Mathers who went to fullback so Riley went to the wing.

Riley had done what Penny had done when he first came in - scored tries and looked fast - but whereas Penny had then lost form and got targeted by other teams, Riley went from strength to strength in defence and under kicks and he became a try-a-game winger which is what Penny had been for that brief explosive start.

So for all the people that think Penny was unfairly treated by Warrington, who should he have been brought back in favour of? Hicks or Riley?

All I'll say is it was good while it lasted, and I'm grateful to have witnessed some really excellent tries by Kevin. It will be debated for years (usually every time he drops down another peg on the rugby ladder) what could've or should've happened to him, but the bottom line is he had potential (admittedly a lot of people, mostly our own fans, got carried away with how big his potential was - I'm not really sure anyone ever genuinely thought he was actually going to be as good as Martin Offiah though) which, for one reason or another, hasn't and never will be fulfilled.

Maybe things could have been so much different for Kev if he was 3-4 years younger and coming through our youth system now...
Positioning and technique in defence can be taught and maybe learning under Smith he could have gone a lot further? Question is would he have made it through the system with guys like Williams, Evans, Hellewell, etc all waiting for their opportunities?

TBH I agree with the posts stating it was good whilst it lasted. For a time there was genuine excitement/expectation when Penny got the ball..who will ever forget the try against Stains. Just a pity he was found out big-time when having to defend.

I think he was a victim of his own success.

He scored some cracking tries and became hot property, and then what happens, Cullen offers him a nice contract to keep the other clubs away. What with all the hype, I think Cullen did the right thing. Imagine if he had been the next Offiah and we'd have let him go.

With all this new fame and expectation, we started to look at his whole game more closely, rather than the headline stealing tries, it was his positioning, defence and decision making that was questioned, whilst he should have still probably been learning all this in the acadamy, his ego/contract was probably telling him he should be our first choice winger.

I wonder if he would have made less of an impact if he'd still be here. no need to move him on from a fairly big contract, he would have learnt his trade (a la Riley) and a certain amount of pressure would have been off him.

Good luck to the lad, and whoever said England 7's could actually be on to something.............

I'm glad Riley has been mentioned. Penny wasn't "hung out to dry". Nor, I suspect, did he suffer from the coaches failing to put an arm round him. Riley is a great example of what can be achieved through hard work and determination - as SC mentioned he had been in and out of the side for a few years and out on loan too. That said - natural talent plus a long education through playing junior rugby will help massively too. I remember watching Riley play for Woolston u16s and I felt sure then he would make a SL player - yet at that age Penny was only just playing his first game of RL.

Exactly - people say there was nobody to put an arm round him, but how do we know what went on behind the scenes? Tony Smith has a great track record in bringing through young players and for all people know Smith and the coaching staff were supportive and tried to develop his game. Also I think it's unfair when people say stuff like "his early success went to his head" - it's not like Penny was getting in off-field trouble, he just got dropped for his form and then had got overtaken by Riley, how do we know he wasn't working hard and just got edged out because he wasn't good enough?

I also reckon as fans we overrate pace. Yes its a weapon but if its the choice of someone who's quite quick and has an all round game against someone who's super quick and the rest of the game is flaky then the all round winger will make it in SL and the other won't. Players who have express speed get this mythological aura about them that makes people think they are better than they are, for many years we were talking about Cullen getting Craig Calvert over from Whitehaven and he trained with us a couple of times but never got taken on, and Nicky Royle was another that people said if only he had the right coaching he could have been a superstar. The Aussie fans used to go on about a guy called Joven Clarke at South Sydney who was supposed to be the quickest player in Australia but never made it in the NRL.

Penny was probably preferred by our fans to Riley because he was quicker and more exciting, I thought that as well, I had Riley down as another Gaskell, a solid guy who tries hard who had nothing special to him, so I wanted us to persevere with Penny and Richie Barnett but Riley then showed he was a quality finisher so there was no argument really, Riley was the man. He's had his own time of being on the outer last season when he was out of the side and out on loan then he came back in the end of last season on fire. In a competitive squad players have to take their chances and Penny didn't do that.

I think his nose got put out of joint when mathers arrived and took his mantle of 'best back slapper and high fiver'.

I think there is a possibility that Union could suit him more than League. His major weakness was defensive decision making. A Union winger simply has to make far less crucial defensive decisions compared to League. Playing for Sale FC he will get plenty of ball I suspect. Some of the Sale FC players have played for the Sale Jets, the Sale Sharks 2nd team. That could open up a new opportunity. I live within walking distance of Heywood Road, so may go and watch my first ever Sale FC game to watch him play, and hopefully see some jaw droppingly good tries. I really hope it works out for him. His defending was atrocious, but his individual tries live long in the memory.

He could walk into the England 7's squad I think. Ben Gollings is the most capped english 7's player of all time and he can't tackle!

Has this all been confirmed now? Steve McCormack rubbished it on twitter the other day :S

I don't think it went to his head in terms of becoming a johnny big balls, but I do think that due to his instant success, he was more closely scrutinised especially with a decent contract and expectation hanging over his head. People in an around the club would begin to look for a return for the investment made, it was just unfortunate that he didn't develop into what we thought he could have been.

Do I think Cull was right to offer him a big contract (also I am assuming he was on a 'decent' wedge compared to Riley for example), too right, as i said previously, he gave the impression that big things were to come.

Can we essentially put his performance fn his first 11 games down to luck or did he have the raw talent to compete, but was never given time to develop?!?

Well lots of young backs have a good start then coaches have time to start watching footage of them and targeting them and so they go through a dip where they are under pressure by other teams and lose form, sometimes they come through it (Chev Walker, Vainikolo), other times they just fade away (Rivett, Karl Pryce).

But in SL there is a limited number of chances a player will get. Penny played 50 Super League games which is a fair crack of the whip, if there had been upward progression in his form he would have probably been kept on by someone, but take out his explosive first half season and the rest is a couple of good games and a lot where he struggled.

He has been training with Sale for a while which helped keep his options open as to which code he continued with

Saw Penny play for Swinton against the under 20s. Once he had been chased down, in the open, for the second time I thought it said it all really.

Penny named on the bench for Sale Jets tonight, along with another of our former wingers, Taylor Welch:
[urlhttp://www.salesharks.com/ClubNewsDetail/article/2656914/name/Jets%20playing%20RGC%201404%20tonight[/url

USA!

I think this is spot on. And as an unashamed fan of penny's it was a real shame....

Take Ben Jones Bishop, a young exciting winger with potential to go on and carve out a good career however he is still Raw, dodgy in defence,and dodgy under the high ball.but he's a decent attacking pacey winger but he hasnt grabbed headlines like Penny did, he hasnt scored the wonder tries penny did.

I'm sure Many people will Say Ben jones Bishop is twice the player Penny ever was and if thats the case, then Why on Friday night When Chris Riley rounded him with all the ease of someone taking candy from a premature baby was nothing said by the commentators about BJB being caught out,or being niave, or being poor at that aspect of the game, and why didnt the Wire fans sing there's only one Ben jones Bishop.....??

Penny for a brief spell was great for the game and great for our club, I hope the Game of Rugby whatever code rewards him well.

Possibly because although BJB sometimes has poor games, he has also had good defensive games, including the more exposed full back role?

It seems to me that fans are remarkably hard on players who they think are destined for greatness and then disappoint. Rivett is similarly disparaged on the Leeds board by a lot of people - not even the fact he scored 4 tries at Wembley seems to matter. Aisncough is similarly trashed on the Wigan board, forgetting how good he looked in his first season.

Penny has an amazing highlights reel - I would have loved to have been there when he scored some of those tries, even against Leeds. I hope most people choose to remember the tries and not the stuff ups. He and Ainscough haven't become greats of the game, but they've given fans some moments of great excitement, which shouldn't be underestimated either.

I can still remember the electric atmosphere in the South Stand when he received the ball and left the Wigan backs for dead as he beat them on the outside. From what i recall we beat them about 34-22 or something like that.

I find it quite sad that there is no place, even in the lower echelons of super league, for players with as much exciting talent as penny just beacause they have some flaws in their game. I am sick of seeing pacy backs from all teams in super league looking for support when they break the line and are in the clear with just the full back to beat. Is trying to beat the last man with pace or a nice step a thing of the past? It wasn't just penny's pace that made him exciting, but his subtle change of pace when the full back attempted to tackle him. He regularly skinned the best (including wellens when he was in his pomp) full backs in the game. Still, he scored some of the best tries i've seen in a warrington shirt and that will stay with me forever.

Good luck to him and I hope he can work his way back into SL eventually