You are quite correct about the qualifications however Plange had taken a team to a final before getting the Warrington gig. I'm no huge fan of Plange but he was more critical to Warrington remaining in SL than PC was based on league points.

Anyway I welcomed the PC appointment at the time, I thought he was the real deal as we all did. Sadly he wasn't and isn't, gift of the gab or not.

Re: Plange vs Cullen and who saved us etc. comes down to the following Question:

Despite Plange's better history of W/L ratios, would we have won the two games which kept us in SL without [ithe[/i, or [ia[/i change of coach?

In my own personal view, we wouldn't have won any of them and we would have gone down. Cullen coming in changed the outlook completely at the end of that year and thus I attribute us being saved to him and his influence.

Cullen coming in took the feet off the net.

71, regardless of the amount of games he won, he did what he was brought in to do; prevent relegation. I couldn't see Plange achieving that.

I have a lot of time for Cull and was sickened by the cr@p talked by many 'fans' during his period as coach - so much so that I gave up posting for a while. Unfortunately society being what it is today and 'fans' being what they are, they can say what they like, when they like with very little reproach (unless it's defamatory and even then.....).

Yes he should have gone before he did but some of the posters on here were just plain out of order - and I would suggest many (but by no means all) with very little understanding of the game.

We all pay our cash to see the team play and want them to do well and we have a right to air our views - but that's no different to all fans in all sports. If there's reasoned argument for views, again I have no problem with that but far too many times there was criticism without reasoned argument and that's what makes me really frustrated with forum like this.

Tony Smith is a good coach - and I'll admit I'm more impressed with him since I've seen him working with Warrington close up than I was when he was with Leeds etc. (I did not think it was a first rate appointment - and I was wrong). But even he had lots of critics at Leeds and I'm sure eventually 'fans being 'fans' will turn on him.
Luckily he knows that and - only my belief - he walked before being pushed at Leeds.

Everyone's expectation will be high for this year - even more so than in the previous 7+ years because the team won a trophy last year, arguably we've strengthened and we've got a good crop on youngsters coming through. But I really hope that at the first sign of trouble fans don't start to call for heads to roll.

When you look back, you have to realise Cullen took us to a position to where we were one season away from winning a major trophy, that's not a bad achievement. IMO you have to give the man credit, because without his ambition in 2002 we wouldn't be here today. I'm sure everyone would have loved it if he had the ability to coach Wire to that CC win and it would have been the perfect fairytale, rags to riches story.

I think that's the main reason some of us stayed his side so long (on here anyway).

He's a very good coach and a real good bloke is Cull, were delighted to have him.

We've done this a million times before, it's difficult to find something to say about Cull that hasn't been said before. You churn out the same stuff, top man, passionate, blah blah.

I think we've all formed our ideas on him now and we're stuck to them. I think he was key to us staying in SL, the 2/6 is 2/4 for me as the other two were dead-rubber. Some folk, Wires 71 will say that's irrelevant, and I'd understand why, but to me, he got the points in the bank, we were safe, and if the players put the cue on the rack, then sort of 'so be it ... mission accomplished.'

If it was Cull top trumps, you'd be like ...

Effort : 10
Passion : 10
Attacking Coaching : 9
Defensive Coaching : 3
Media Savvyness : 9
Recruitment : 9
Tactical Awareness : 5
Youth Promotion

ETC

Overall : 7

Which was fine, fine in 2002, fine up until 2005. Then from 2006 Onwards, probably not fine really.

Do I think he'd do well in SL at another club ? Yeah, why not. If I was say, a Hull fan, I'd rather have Cull than Agar any day of the week.

No way 9....Cullen signed far too many players who didn't deliver what we expected from them, Sullivan, Reardon, Cardiss, Wilshere, Richie Barnett jnr, Stevens, Bracek. Also you could probably say Rauhihi, Johnson and Swann were overall not what we had hoped despite having their moments.

There are also quite a few Cullen signings, who were considered disappointments when Cullen was coach, but started to do well after Tony Smith took over - Monaghan, King, Louis Anderson. Simon Grix and Bridge also look better signings now than they did when Cullen was coach.

Best signing Cullen made was Martin Gleeson, he was the best centre in Britain and played the best form of his career with us under Cullen. Other good signings were Fa'afili, Leikvoll, Forshaw and Morley, and actually getting Wainwright back was a good signing as well.

Lima, Parker and Vinnie Anderson - mixed bag.
Kohe-Love and Sibbit - not as good as they were first time around.

Overall Cullen gets a 6 out of 10 for recruitment for me.

On this one I think you are doing Cullen a disservice. Riley, Cooper, Harrison were all brought through well by Cullen, he definitely took an interest in bringing through the young players and gave lots of players a chance. 7 out of 10 for me.

Is Grose a deliberate or mistaken omission?

forgot about Grose, where would you put him....probably in the good signings, although a bit of a mixed bag in the end, he had 2 good seasons, 1 outstanding season, 1 bad season and 1 average season

I reckon most coaches have a natural shelf-life whatever position they find themselves in. 5 years ish seems to be the average these days. In that time if you can leave the club in a better position than you joined it then overall its a success, and Cullen certainly did that at wire. Cullen had gone as far as he could true, but it's testimony to his achievements that (the ill-judged Lowes period apart), the new coach was in a position to win a trophy so quickly. If Smith had taken over Wire when Cullen did I doubt he would've achieved much more before being replaced.

Smith himself took Leeds from nearly men to GF Winners but it took a new coach to ensure they've taken that to the next step (3 in a row!).

I think Widnes will look to Cullen to have learned from experience at Wire, and possibly, in a five or so year period put them in a position to get back into Superleague and (maybe) consolidate a lower league position at which time he will have gone as far as he can before handing over to a new coach to take them to the next level. If that happens, he will have been a success.

At the same time, Wire, under Smith should expect to be competing reasonably regularly in Semis and the odd final etc, but shouldn't expect a Saints/Leeds style dominance until the next coach comes along.

Spot on!

I think Cullen was a success story overall and we all have to admit that he may have outstayed his welcome in many ways but he deserved the time because of how long he has served the club and how passionate he is about not only the club but the town!

The Lowes 08 season is deemed a success as well because we finished in the playoffs and although a few bad and really bad results occured we also beat big teams and finished above where we were when he took over.

Yet for me like in any sport doesnt this always or majority of the time happen in sport when a new guy comes in.. The players dig deeper to impress the new guy freshens thinsg up, thats all Lowes did.

Smith might win the GF with us but I wonder if he will be given as much time as Cullen if he doesnt bring home the Super League... I think he will on the merit of this years CC Win...

But what Trashcansinatra said I have to agree.

Only because he didn't stay.

I'm not saying I expect a period of dominance, I do expect Warrington to be involved in the 'business end' of competitions. I think Smith would be disappointed if we aren't punching with the big boys, and I think expects this from like, now.

Are you referring to his outstanding season as the one played at fullback?

I thought his first two seasons, at centre were just immense. If I am honest, I was never much of a fan of his at fullback, then when he dipped after being moved from fullback, I found him quite frustrating.

agree 100%...we were heading no where fast..then the year after we were in the playoffs...he may have had his faults(who does`nt)but have the utmost respect for him..i wish him well

Cullen has forgotten more about RL than most on here will ever know. However, his position was somewhat difficult by the board not backing him to the hilt when difficult decisions had to be made. He then had no choice but to resign.

I also predict that questions will also be asked about Tony Smith from the terraces sooner rather than later.

It makes me laugh how people make these assumptions, Tony Smith only won a trophy because Cullen had taken us to the brink of being able to win one....does that mean Cullen only saved us from relegation because David Plange had taken us to the brink of being able to stay up? Maybe the only reason Cullen was able to make the top 6 in 2003, was because of the work Darryl Van de Velde had put in before?

Tony Smith won a trophy because a) he is a coach good enough to win a trophy, b) he inherited a Warrington side with enough quality players in to be able to win a trophy. Cullen had neither of those things, the side he inherited wasn't good enough to win a trophy but for the last 3-4 years of his time as coach it was certainly as good on paper as the side Tony Smith had, and we might well have won a trophy if we'd have jettisoned Cullen sooner and got a better coach in. Those extra years marking time under Cullen weren't years of putting in the groundwork, slowly building a team capable of winning a trophy, they were ones of standing still, getting frustrated and wondering why our big signings continually failed to deliver....until Smith came in.

I don't understand the Stalinisation of Cullen.

In his first season, yes he won 2/6. But we were going nowhere with Plange and the wins we had underhim meant we stayed up. If I recall the last two games we capitullated against Wakey and Salford in dead games. Not acceptable I know but we were already safe.

He then converted the team into contenders with the backing of the baord. We got to the playoffs for the first time ever.

I agree he took as far as he could and should have left before he did but I am eternally thankful for the job he did. He certainly assebled sides that should have achieved more than they did.

For me his ultimate failure was the inability to get a decent scrumhalf. The signings of Sullivan and Monas as scrumhalves was a disaster. To hear Cullen on Boots an All talking about Monas 'playing in his best position at Hooker' when analysying a game said it all for me.

So I am thankful for what he did, sorry it all ended so badly.

Do you have an example of when the board didn't back him? Did he resign after the Cas game?

With respect your predictions do need to be taken with a little pinch of salt as, afterall, you were the one with "We will win Silverware under PC" well up until about 2005 anyway.

He wasn't supported when he wanted to have certain players moved out of the club. Strangely the board backed Tony Smith when he made the same demands.

And predictions are just opinions and anyone with any sense surely must have felt with the resources at his command Cullen should have delivered a trophy. It is still a surprise to many that he didn't. Including me.

That's the crux of the problem he had I guess. He was "good", not great, and his "nice bloke" tactics didn't really win him any favours either.

Glad he managed to get another gig in management though. I feared the Warrington job would be his last.

On another point, alot of people have said "stayed too long" "should have gone sooner" etc.. Not many people will willingly walk from any job unless they have something else lined up, so I'm not sure I follow that one
The wording you typically hear in sport such as "left by mutual consent" typically mean sacked but 'this way it looks better for both of us'. Very rarely do people just up and resign - even in sport.

Wonder if he will ever get another shot at the coaching job here?

Were any of the players he wanted moved on the same as the ones he recruited? Why did PC put up with being undermined by the board?

I agree PC should have delivered a much better return with the resources at his disposal.

Difficult one to answer that as PC didn't always agree with/ sanction some of the players brought into the club. One of those players was one who he hadn't specifically targetted (we all know who that is).

The answer to the other one; fear of being out of a job, loyalty to the club maybe?