Sally, don’t forget that the cap may be utilised to it’s fullest by the biggest clubs but only one has spent many hundreds of thousands repeatedly over the last few years in transfer fees. In fact I’m not sure any of the other big clubs have spent this way since Wigan purchased Fielden in 2005.

Of course I could be wrong and would gladly be corrected as I’d feel a little happier about our situation.

I would suggest that most of our problems with overseas players stem from our poor quality scouting set up. While other clubs seem to sniff out better prospects we are signing last minute panic buys who can't get a gig in the NRL. Last night we played a team of retirees & cast offs who produced as much ambition to win as we did & i thought produced a very entertaining game.

Your problem is your club has a serial losers mentality and some very overrated players along with a crap coach

Yes we do have a serial losers (well, Bridemaids) mentality and that’s the core of the problem, as your first point stated.

However it can also be said that Wigan are currently facing the same situation that you highlighted in your second and third points.

I really don’t understand why “big budget” and “rich club” have any relevance to the squad in a salary capped sport?
As for most supporters wanting us to win the GF well of course we do, but if that is all you are interested in then maybe you should support a team that you believe has more chance of doing so.

We have a crap coach I agree, I’m not sure we have many overrated players however, most Wigan fans recognise which players are poor such as Clubb J.Burgess Flower etc

At this time....I'd take any of those 3 at Wire. We're bare bones with props.

If you’d take ten minute Tony then things really must be desperate

We are... I'll raise you 10 min Sita

Quote ="Captain Hook"I really don’t understand why “big budget” and “rich club” have any relevance to the squad in a salary capped sport? '" 1. Rich clubs can spend the maximum cap due to their higher revenues. https://www.rugby-league.com/salary_cap_regulations The amount each Club can spend on its first team players is (subject to certain exemptions and dispensations) limited to the lower of: - The finite Salary Cap limit of £2.1m; and [u- The amount that it is deemed that a Club can afford to spend pursuant to the Financial Sustainability Regulations.[/u 2. Rich clubs can afford to pay the wages for 2 x marquee players which as you know are unlimited but only count as £150,000. https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/r ... 20-3587721. Only Hudds, Wigan, Leeds, Catalans, Warrington and Toronto have marquee players. Only Wigan, Warrington, Leeds and Toronto have 2. 3. Rich clubs can afford top facilities, a large performance team, pre-season camps abroad etc 4. Rich clubs can pay top salaries to attract top head coaches.

Quote ="Captain Hook"I really don’t understand why “big budget” and “rich club” have any relevance to the squad in a salary capped sport? '" 1. Rich clubs can spend the maximum cap due to their higher revenues. https://www.rugby-league.com/salary_cap_regulations The amount each Club can spend on its first team players is (subject to certain exemptions and dispensations) limited to the lower of: - The finite Salary Cap limit of £2.1m; and [u- The amount that it is deemed that a Club can afford to spend pursuant to the Financial Sustainability Regulations.[/u 2. Rich clubs can afford to pay the wages for 2 x marquee players which as you know are unlimited but only count as £150,000. https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/r ... 20-3587721. Only Hudds, Wigan, Leeds, Catalans, Warrington and Toronto have marquee players. Only Wigan, Warrington, Leeds and Toronto have 2. 3. Rich clubs can afford top facilities, a large performance team, pre-season camps abroad etc 4. Rich clubs can pay top salaries to attract top head coaches.

I would argue that the posters who criticise Price do so because they desperately want their team to be better than it is. Demanding a higher standard because we believe we can be better. Not settling for being the laughing stock of the likes of Wigan and St Helens and singing songs about our own shortcomings. I was at the game on Friday and I know from the boos when Toronto drew level that there are thousands of us like-minded souls. We don't want to change our allegiance, we want the club to change it's fortunes.

I would also hazard a guess that those same posters have a damn sight more years in watching the Wire, invested more in the club (SqB, VIP membership, Matchday sponsors etc etc) than the P&B Facebook mafia who believe everything is peachy.

My stance at the end of last season was we should replace Price, if there was a better option I still would although I think this would be a very strange time to do so. The reason I don’t rush to come on here after a defeat though is I know that there will be a mass of repetitive posts with the constant refrain along the lines of “we have the wrong mentality, coach, players”. An argument doesn’t get any stronger by repetition. In fact I find,perversely, that I want to defend Price purely due to the constant carping.

To be fair you are on a thread entitled "Price". It's reasonable to expect some strong critique of the coach contained within.

In order to have a debate we inevitably need representation for both sides of the argument. However, like yourself I do find these knee jerk 'sack the coach' topics both predictable and boring.

I feel a bit the same. We have a few twisted & bitter members who think the best way of relieving the anguish of losing or playing badly is to have yet another moan. The constant gripe (after a honey moon period) is to sack the coach ... Cullen, Smith, Agar, Price ... all supposedly rubbish. Would they be happy with anyone? ... not really. If it was left to the bitter & twisted we'd have had about 500 coaches in the last 10 years.

This is just the nature of sport.

The Leeds fans had threads every year wanting Brian McDermott out. Wigan fans went through spells of criticising Wane too. And these were coaches who were winning Grand Finals.

If you read a fans forum, you're not going to get particularly informed, insightful critique, it's gobsheets like me who have never played the game spouting off with their theories.

I have plenty of moans so I'm not going to call out others for doing so, but I think there are a few principles to bear in mind before griping.

We shouldn't airbrush out things that we have won. 4 Challenge Cups out of the last 11 is the greatest period of Wire history since the Bevan era. I remember growing up and being excited about winning the Lancashire Cup and Regal Trophy, it was all I saw us win in the first 20 years of being a Wire fan. The CC final last year was the best big game performance that I have ever seen from a Wire team. But I think some of our fans just seemed to shrug it off and say, yeah it's a cup, it papered over the cracks.

You should enjoy these moments as you never know when the next one will come around. I bet when Widnes won the Regal Trophy in 1992 they didn't think it was that exciting, they'd recently won two Championships and the WCC and Regal Trophy probably seemed small beer. They never won anything again and don't look like they ever will. Same with Bradford in 2005.

A related point is the rugby equivalent of the doctors' "first do no harm" principle. When you change things, like the coach, board etc, it's not a risk-free lottery: "what have we got to lose, we can't be any worse than now!". You can always get worse and there are plenty of examples from teams who will look back and think with hindsight we shouldn't have made that change at that time.

The wrong appointment as coach can really kill a club's roster over a 2 to 3 period. Look at Souness replacing Dalglish at Liverpool or Dalglish replacing Keegan at Newcastle. The argument for change should be more about what you are changing to rather than what you are changing from. If you're just taking a leap in the dark don't be surprised if sometimes you fall down rather than up.

Brilliant Sally

To the people complaining about people complaining, let me ask you something.

If half way through a thrilling Wires Saints play off game SKY announced they weren't showing he second half but switching to repeats of the 2013 Gerbil Racing Championship from Sri Lanka, you'd be annoyed. You'd complain. You'd threaten to cancel your contract.

If the BBC announced they weren't showing the CC final between Wires and Wigan but screening a Germaine Greer documentary instead the screams of "cancel my licence fee" would rebound around the m62.

Well. I pay good, hard earned money to watch the team I love play the sport I love and to entertain me. If they do not do so consistently I reserve the right to complain and ultimately see action.

The right of paying customers to complain is what keeps prices down and Gerbil racing off the TV.

Quote ="morrisseyisawire"To the people complaining about people complaining, let me ask you something. If half way through a thrilling Wires Saints play off game SKY announced they weren't showing he second half but switching to repeats of the 2013 Gerbil Racing Championship from Sri Lanka, you'd be annoyed. You'd complain. The right of paying customers to complain is what keeps prices down and Gerbil racing off the TV.'" You speak for yourself https://bonuscodepoker.com/could-regula ... in-revenue

Quote ="morrisseyisawire"To the people complaining about people complaining, let me ask you something. If half way through a thrilling Wires Saints play off game SKY announced they weren't showing he second half but switching to repeats of the 2013 Gerbil Racing Championship from Sri Lanka, you'd be annoyed. You'd complain. The right of paying customers to complain is what keeps prices down and Gerbil racing off the TV.'" You speak for yourself https://bonuscodepoker.com/could-regula ... in-revenue

There’s a marble racing thing on youtube which is just epic.

Fair point, but the complaint largely seems to be about “not winning “ rather than entertainment.
I also get people want to complain, but this topic consists of the same thing over and over. I think we all know who stands where and why by now.

When anyone throws in the phrase about "spending their hard earned money" ... to emphasise a point ... it always makes me chuckle. Enjoy your right to moan & moan and cheer on your 500'th coach.

Why? Don't you earn your money or do you still live with your mum?

So let me get your point right. One has to be bitter and twisted to challenge the coaching appointment?

Remember the bitter and twisted wanted Cullen out in 2008 and we won a Challenge Cup within 12 months.

It’s pointless the happy clappers are never going to let you have your opinion we are just a bunch of moaners, I thought the idea of sport was to win am I wrong.