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| Quote ="Captain Hook"Which bit of “3rd choice halfback” is difficult to understand? We have Austin now and Widdop to join next season. What player is going to sign for half a season knowing they will be back up next year no matter how they play. It’s like real life doesn’t play any part in some supporters lives.'"
OK I'll bite although why you seem incapable of making your points without insults is beyond me.
It is perfectly possible for us to try and secure a loan signing of a half back from the NRL or SL. Let me educate you on one "real life" recent example - Matty Smith spent short term loan spells at Salford, Celtic Crusaders and Widnes Vikings.
Ergo it is perfectly possible to secure a loan signing of a half-back, an international, dream team member and Lance Todd winner as it has been done before, rendering your argument without merit. |
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| Quote ="ninearches"Yes,for whatever reason, our locally grown talent seems to have a glass ceiling.'"
Really - what's holding Patton back this season? Did Matty Blythe and Penny hit the glass ceiling? |
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Quote ="sally cinnamon"
As for Riley he scored 100 odd tries.
Yeah yeah I know, he was playing outside Atkins, anyone could have scored 100 tries off all the chances Atkins creates for his winger.'"
Yeah I think Matt King and Chris Bridge may have helped a bit too.
By his own admission "They're two special centres. I think I've walked in for half of my tries."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/17828974 |
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Quote ="sally cinnamon"
As for Riley he scored 100 odd tries.
Yeah yeah I know, he was playing outside Atkins, anyone could have scored 100 tries off all the chances Atkins creates for his winger.'"
Yeah I think Matt King and Chris Bridge may have helped a bit too.
By his own admission "They're two special centres. I think I've walked in for half of my tries."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/17828974 | |
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| Quote ="Wires71"OK I'll bite although why you seem incapable of making your points without insults is beyond me.
It is perfectly possible for us to try and secure a loan signing of a half back from the NRL or SL. Let me educate you on one "real life" recent example - Matty Smith spent short term loan spells at Salford, Celtic Crusaders and Widnes Vikings.
Ergo it is perfectly possible to secure a loan signing of a half-back, an international, dream team member and Lance Todd winner as it has been done before, rendering your argument without merit.'"
There have been insults, but not by me. So your example is Matty Smith who couldn’t get in a team where the 1st choice half backs were a converted full back and a rookie who has since been dropped like a hot potato?
Who in your view is actually available NOW that could be guaranteed to improve us (remember a certain world class signing that set our team alight...a certain Mr Roberts.
So no your point doesn’t render my argument without merit. |
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A coach is always under pressure to deliver. Unlike some jobs in industry and the public sector it's very simple to gauge his/her success or failure during the course of the year. So would SP deliberately place a glass ceiling between a really talented local youngster and the first team ? Conversely, would he stick with one that was simply not good enough if he could easily replace him ?
Sometimes a coach will get his judgement badly wrong. Sometimes his hands will be tied (eg financially) and he can not take the decision he would prefer. But the 'direction of travel' will always be the same in that he will attempt to assemble the best possible squad that he can get his hands on.
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| Quote ="Captain Hook"
Who in your view is actually available NOW that could be guaranteed to improve us (remember a certain world class signing that set our team alight...a certain Mr Roberts.
So no your point doesn’t render my argument without merit.'"
Watson Boas
Anthony Thackerey
Stanislas Robin
Connor Robinson
...all better than Patton and that's just from the championship.. |
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Didn't Ste Price give Dec the green light earlier in the season ? Perhaps he sees Dec as the best option till Kev is ready to go again.
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| Quote ="Wires71"So you rated Riley? How would you explain his exodus when he left us. Surely a centenary try scorer would have offers from a number of SL clubs?'"
I thought he was a decent winger for a good while, six seasons or so. Didn't think he was only in the team because of Tony Smith's bias towards home grown talent. He wasn't in the top calibre like Hicks and Joel Monaghan and having started as a first teamer with us at 17, he had a lot of miles on the clock by his late 20s, so when we let him go I thought it was fair enough at the time. But he went to Wakefield and was still a decent first teamer for two more seasons there, and we replaced him with Gene Ormsby, then Kevin Penny, then Matty Russell - were any of them an upgrade on Riley? With hindsight I would have kept him for longer. |
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| Quote ="Wirefan"Watson Boas
Anthony Thackerey
Stanislas Robin
Connor Robinson
...all better than Patton and that's just from the championship..'"
Watson Boas now in League One on loan at Doncaster. I hope he is every bit as good as you think, we could do with a lift. |
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| Quote ="Wirefan"Watson Boas
Anthony Thackerey
Stanislas Robin
Connor Robinson
...all better than Patton and that's just from the championship..'"
Jesus H Christ, thank God you're nowhere near our recruitment team.
Whilst I'm not a Patton fan he is by far a better option than any of these. I actually thought prior to Saints and the Easter period that he had generally been doing what was required from him. If anything he has moved away from that limited role and errors and costly penalties have increased.
Let's be clear he isn't the Messiah but if people think Anthony Thackeray is a better option then we may as well pack in now. |
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| Quote ="Wirefan"Watson Boas
Anthony Thackerey
Stanislas Robin
Connor Robinson
...all better than Patton and that's just from the championship..'"
No idea whether they are better or not to be honest, but are they available? Why would any club allow their key half back to leave the club for 3 months until Brown is hopefully fit again?
We have an injury to a key half back, Patton is back up to that half back, we just have to deal with it unfortunately. No pots are won in April, as long as Brown is fit for the final third of the season, Patton should remain in place for me. Plus the first team exposure can only put him in a better place for when he is again covering half back next season should (when) Austin / Widdop pick up an injury or suspension. |
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| Quote ="Wirefan"Watson Boas
Anthony Thackerey
Stanislas Robin
Connor Robinson
...all better than Patton and that's just from the championship..'"
Oh my.
You must really hate Patton |
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| Quote ="Paul Youane"Jesus H Christ, thank God you're nowhere near our recruitment team.
Whilst I'm not a Patton fan he is by far a better option than any of these. I actually thought prior to Saints and the Easter period that he had generally been doing what was required from him. If anything he has moved away from that limited role and errors and costly penalties have increased.
Let's be clear he isn't the Messiah but if people think Anthony Thackeray is a better option then we may as well pack in now.'"
I think you've missed the tongue in cheek point I was making.. |
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| Quote ="Wirefan"I think you've missed the tongue in cheek point I was making..'"
Oh yeah, it was so obviously tongue in cheek. |
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Bottom line is the British game isn't producing decent half backs anymore, and the ones that do emerge (Patton, Richardson recently, Myler, Robinson a little further back) seem.to hit a plateau quickly and fail to kick on.
It doesn't seem to happpen in other positions, or at least not to the same extent. Maybe it's coaching, absence of an apprenticeship via reserve team football or the ludicrous werewolf-esque face fuzz that seems so popular among the playmaker fraternity.
George Williams is the most natural British half we have seen for a while, and he has spent the last 18 months going backwards; be interesting to see how we goes in the NRL.
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| Quote ="Paul Youane"Jesus H Christ, thank God you're nowhere near our recruitment team.
Whilst I'm not a Patton fan he is by far a better option than any of these. I actually thought prior to Saints and the Easter period that he had generally been doing what was required from him. If anything he has moved away from that limited role and errors and costly penalties have increased.
Let's be clear he isn't the Messiah but if people think Anthony Thackeray is a better option then we may as well pack in now.'"
Totally agree with you... |
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| Quote ="morrisseyisawire"Bottom line is the British game isn't producing decent half backs anymore, and the ones that do emerge (Patton, Richardson recently, Myler, Robinson a little further back) seem.to hit a plateau quickly and fail to kick on.
It doesn't seem to happpen in other positions, or at least not to the same extent. Maybe it's coaching, absence of an apprenticeship via reserve team football or the ludicrous werewolf-esque face fuzz that seems so popular among the playmaker fraternity.
George Williams is the most natural British half we have seen for a while, and he has spent the last 18 months going backwards; be interesting to see how we goes in the NRL.'"
This has been the case for a while now, we went from Gregory, Edwards, Goulding, to Long, Briers and that was it.
For a while people used to say, it's because the British game is obsessed with producing athletes, and young lads with talent who aren't the fastest or most physical don't get a look in. But the reality is those lads would get smashed, and the same happens in Australia too. The Aussies and Kiwis produce a lot of good halfbacks but they are all superb athletes too. Owen Craigie was a ballplaying talent who lacked on the physical side and he ended up seen as a bit of a joke figure. |
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I think it can be traced back to 1993 and the rule changes which changed the emphasis to ruck control rather than out and out creative ability.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-ev ... zqw8y.html
The nature of the game completely changed.
[i1993 gang tackling and unlimited interchange led to the 10 metre rule and with it the emphasis on controlling the speed of the play-the-ball as defences struggled to get back onside and attacking teams tried to take advantage or win a penalty from under pressure referees.
In the past decade, wrestling has become endemic as defenders firstly began "dancing" with the ball carrier to hold him on his feet and attacks countered with the "surrender" tackle, in which the ball carrier tried to get to the ground as soon as contact is made in order to effect a fast play the ball.
"The defenders and ball carrier are conducting a private war, with the defensive unit specifically holding," Broughton said. "Attack counters this with the surrender tackle and this is then countered by the grapple, crusher and chicken wing – all to punish the defender for diving at the ground."
Backs had more time.[/i |
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I think it can be traced back to 1993 and the rule changes which changed the emphasis to ruck control rather than out and out creative ability.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-ev ... zqw8y.html
The nature of the game completely changed.
[i1993 gang tackling and unlimited interchange led to the 10 metre rule and with it the emphasis on controlling the speed of the play-the-ball as defences struggled to get back onside and attacking teams tried to take advantage or win a penalty from under pressure referees.
In the past decade, wrestling has become endemic as defenders firstly began "dancing" with the ball carrier to hold him on his feet and attacks countered with the "surrender" tackle, in which the ball carrier tried to get to the ground as soon as contact is made in order to effect a fast play the ball.
"The defenders and ball carrier are conducting a private war, with the defensive unit specifically holding," Broughton said. "Attack counters this with the surrender tackle and this is then countered by the grapple, crusher and chicken wing – all to punish the defender for diving at the ground."
Backs had more time.[/i | |
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I think his kicking game is coming on - at least two tries scored from them today.
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| Quote ="Robwire"I think his kicking game is coming on - at least two tries scored from them today.'"
Yet his defence continues to be shocking. Also when there was a break on and he was in the clear he hadn’t a clue what do do and instead got smashed!
Don’t worry he will have been good at banging the winning drum no doubt!  |
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Yeah, he’s not quite got that instinct to make a where a split second can make the difference.
He can put a decent tackle in. And I was impressed when he tried to rush round the scrum last week, even if it didn’t come off.
There’s areas of his game to work on. But we’re comfortably in second with him. Whether I’m still happy at the business end, we’ll see.
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| Quote ="Robwire"Yeah, he’s not quite got that instinct to make a where a split second can make the difference.
'"
I think you have hit the nail on the head. Some would argue that this is exactly what you want from a pro RL halfback playing for, arguably, one of the top 3 teams in northern hemisphere rugby league. The RL half back instinct. If you don't have that you shouldn't really be in that position. We are "making do" with Patton. I'm pretty sure those who don't rate Patton will be completely vindicated when he is moved on to a lesser club, as he sure as hell won't be moving on to a Wigan or Saints or NRL as a halfback when he finishes with us. |
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| Quote ="Robwire"Yeah, he’s not quite got that instinct to make a where a split second can make the difference.
He can put a decent tackle in. And I was impressed when he tried to rush round the scrum last week, even if it didn’t come off.
There’s areas of his game to work on. But we’re comfortably in second with him. Whether I’m still happy at the business end, we’ll see.'"
I know there are a fair few out there that are not Kevin Brown fans, I don't suppose I am. However come the business end of the season I really hope he is involved instead of Patton. Browns defence is a million miles better and he actually has a clue with ball in hand. Would immediately improve the side. |
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| Quote ="bbfc00"I know there are a fair few out there that are not Kevin Brown fans, I don't suppose I am. However come the business end of the season I really hope he is involved instead of Patton. Browns defence is a million miles better and he actually has a clue with ball in hand. Would immediately improve the side.'"
Started running again apparently. Don't think he is too far off. |
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I'm a bit concerned that Brown and Austin could end up getting in each others way given the similarity in style (if not execution).
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