You can judge a teams fanbase by looking at what they pull in against the teams with virtually no travelling support. We pulled in over 10,000 for a freezing friday night televised game against Catalans. Not too shabby in my book. In fact, i don't believe we have dipped under a five figure attendance for a league game for the past two seasons. Like somebody posted earlier, if everyone is waiting for the play-offs why are they so poorly attended? Last seasons crowd at home to Hull was disgraceful. Forget about selling out league games, that was knock out football and possibly the most important game yet at the HJ and the ground was half full. I don't have a ST but wouldn't have missed that game for anything.

I agree with you, a few of my mates have said that they will pick and choose games this season, and have not renewed their season tickets. Some naysayers say that they don’t think that the playoffs are anything to do with the drop in some attendances. I would agree it’s not the only reason, cash is tight, but from the people I know the playoff systems is the main excuse, and as to the question “why now then?” well all I can say is it’s what Leeds have achieved from their league position, makes quite a few of the seasons weekly matches meaningless, and it's folks pockets too!

Can't see it selling out, oldest trick in the book is to create panic that you'll miss out if you don't hurry up.

Not bought a ticket yet, driving up after i finish work at 2, get a ticket around 6ish, probably in the West but don't care.

You can book on the website and pick your ticket up from the shop on the day. It would be safe, just in case they do sell out.

I order on the website all the time then just pick it up from the shop when I get off the train or from the windows before the game. Only takes a couple of mins and saves messing about.

The playoffs don't have to be popular to devalue the league system.

Just because the playoffs are not flooded with people does not mean that former season ticket holders believe that the season ticket is now devalued.

So rather than get a season ticket and watch the likes of Salford. They will pick and choose. Attend the Saints/Wigan/Widnes/Leeds matches, but the rest of the regulars are not worth expending large amounts on so you may only take in 2 of those type of games.

But the economy will have the biggest impact. Last year Saints attendances rose, but this year, you would guess they have fallen. Warrington are doing very well on the field, but the fact winning the league means little in terms of success and that you can rest a team for a smaller fixture will lead to some (even if a small %) of fans doing the same. Picking and choosing games.

If it catches on with larger percentages then RL will be in trouble.

The principle of the playoffs is fine. It retains the interest of fans in mid table and extends the excitement of the final SL winners. But to be viable it needs all matches to be competitive and for the SL winner to come from the top 4 ( as Yed stated) in the league. Leeds winning from 5th was the 'emperor has no clothes moment' I am afraid. Fans questioned the value of the earlier rounds where Leeds openly admitted to 'peaking for the playoffs' and Wire and Wigan used large numbers of younger players in less demanding games. It is highly unlikely to happen, but just suppose Leeds finished eighth and won SL. I suspect there would even be some disquiet from Leeds fans if that happened.

SL is not the NRL, so you can not make a direct copy and expect it to work. I personally think the SL chairman have a bit of work to do here. And yes, I agree that a proportion of fans are picking and choosing their games and foregoing the ST.

The crux of the issue is that whatever you may feel, Friday's night will have little or no bearing on our silverware prospects this season, and the same applies to Saints, Leeds, Wigan, Hull etc. etc.

We're all really playing for bragging rights until September.

If we lose on Friday I might be annoyed, frustrated, angry or disappointed but I'll get over it a lot more quickly than I did years ago when losing not only meant local rivalries were stoked a bit more, but the prospect of silverware slipped that little bit farther out of reach.

I just can't justify the expense any more particularly if it is on the box.

This will be the first Wire-Sts match I have missed in living memory.

Why is 2013 any different to 2010?

...because of what has happened in the previous 2 seasons.
Leeds having a very average season 2 years running and still going on to win it all has really changed the way other teams view the competition.
Last season we dropped players in games we viewed to be meaningless even though we were supposedly chasing Wigan for top spot.
The reality is that because of what happened the year before, we didn't care about finishing top.
The emphasis was on getting to the playoffs with a fit squad of players.

The entire way the league and playoffs are setup, will always discourage fans from attending games.

Why would anyone make the effort to go to London for the weekend to watch us play the Broncos, if we are going to put out half a team and not care about the result?
Why would anyone pay to go tonight, when the view is, that it doesn't matter who wins as it will have no effect on the outcome of the season, and it is on TV?

Then we get to the playoffs, and they are poorly attended.
Well what do you expect when a team can lose, but not be eliminated?
That first week between the top 4 teams is even more pointless than the regular season!!!!

Yes, they have to try things to make the regular season mean more for longer for more than just the top 4 or 5 teams, but the current setup has been shown up for what it is by Leeds in the last 2 years, and the results are less bums on seats.

Time for a rethink.

--good post--

A very fine post, but how many times must the likes of you and I keep banging on about it’s what Leeds have done in the last two seasons, that has devalued the weekly rounds. Why can’t they see? Why do they always ask the same question,” Why what’s changed things?” LEEDS HAVE!!!!!

This system works in the NRL. A team/manager can't think "I'll rest half my side tonight and play a load of young lads"; fans don't think "this result won't make any real impact on the season"; teams can't be inconsistent and expect to peak for the play-offs...because anyone who does these things won't make the top8.

Billy Slater can't take his foot off the gas at any moment because Greg Inglis, Ben Barba, Bret Stewart, Josh Dugan, Darius Boyd, Jarryd Hayne, amongst others will be there ready to take his test (or origin if they're a Queenslander) place off him. Josh Hoffman can't do the same as Keven Locke will be picked for the Kiwi's instead. And this is just the full back position, I could do this for every position in a RL team (maybe not to the extent of the full back as every NRL team seems to have a top FB - I never even mentioned up and coming lads like Todesco Duggan Coutte etc even little/old Matty Bowen is a brilliant FB).

Here it doesn't work because there aren't enough good teams and there aren't enough good players. So you're left with mediocrity becoming acceptable throughout the regular season due to it not really making any difference overall.

1945/46 season to 1972/73 (not incl 62/63 & 63/64)
Champions league position and no. of times won from
26 Seasons in total
1st - 11 times
2nd - 5 times
3rd - 4 times
4th - 4 times
7th - 1 time
8th - 1 time

15 seasons of SL with a Grand Final
1st - 8 times
2nd - 4 times
3rd - 1 time
5th - 2 times

TBH nobody thought about teams not trying in the rounds until 2 years ago when Leeds first won from 5th place then it suddenly became " we don't need to play properly till September". It won't be every season that such a result happens & it would be a foolish coach who allowed a mindset like that to develop among his players & a foolish club chairman who allowed it to happen on the terraces.

Many have said that Leeds bucked the trend by winning from 5th. Two years in a row means that I would say they might have set a new trend. Attendances may or may not have been affected by this but its not the only reason.

a) Friday night, Monday night games affect attendances
b) Fixtures being changes at short notice (applies to latter end of season) mean plans cannot be altered.
c) Short of spare cash due to the economic position doesnt help
d) Dare I suggest that the increase in use of smart phones and tablets, couple with the availability of dubious websites means people can watch from home without laying out the cost for SKY.
e) Maybe even expected success in the cup means people are (even at this early stage) planning for a family holiday down south in August.
f) and YES......the "it doesnt matter for 27 weeks" DOES affect it as well.

Attendance for last weeks Saints game was 13,381. So after 3 home games our attendances are down by 5.6%.

Is that a like for like comparison against the same teams or from the same number of opening fixtures?

Is that game for game i.e same opponent.
In Wigans case down by 9%
Saints down by 16%

Yes, the figures are like for like against last years opponents at the HJ.

Thanks for the Wigan / Saints figures B.

We're DOOMED!

Given Saints abject form, Wires weakened squad, Friday night commitments, the weather and the apathy of the league format I actually thought Friday's attendance was quite reasonable.

Following this 5.6% fall in attendance I can now accurately predict that in 20 years time our average gate will be 5,000.

League Express articles, 2033;

" I may hang my boots up next year, but I will see how things go and talk with the coach before making any sudden decisions"
Adrian Morley

"After reviewing the budget, we can confidently say that the cladding will definitely be in place next year"
St Helens CEO

" Absolutely shocking. I can not understand why the RFL seem incapable of stamping out punching and fighting, it has no place in RL"
Gareth Hock, Coach Widnes Vikings


[iThe super rich NRL in Oz have started buying up UK SL clubs and are turning them into feeder clubs.[/i

" Yeah, they should be a really good asset for us. We will probably re-name them Headingly Stormlets"
Melbourne CEO

" This is not how partnering was supposed to have developed, it's degrading, and as chairman of 'Save the Rhino's' I am asking for everyones financial support to buy back this great club"
Gary Hetherington

" I really feel for Gary, it's a black day indeed. We will of course help as much as we can (muffled laughter)"
Hunslet Coach

Very good Chaz, although your crystal ball missed the obvious headline, "2033 THE year of the Wolfs"